Making a Western hat by hand?

[Gobi]

There definitely seems to be a market for felt body suppliers. It just aggravates me because I believe we are at a high point in hat sales, they are trendy right now, and yet every hat maker that pops up pretty much does the same thing with the same felts. They always brag about their old equipment, lost art, blah blah, then they use the same techniques as all the rest to make a finished hat that's no better than any other. We're missing the key part here.

 

[Yahoody]

I would certainly disagree with your statement. I know may be a dozen working western hatters. Some produce a lot better hat than others while all are using the same Winchester beaver blanks. Some claim they use even better and way more expensive imported felts. But no question Winchester is the staple. Few if any use all the same hatter techniques. Few hatters teaching, fewer yet sources with any more in depth knowledge to impart.

You can so easily build a stiff western hat or a soft one with some resilience built in from a decent beaver hat body. I've said it before, "like putty in your hands."

Not a lot of equipment required to build a decent hat. JB proved that decades ago. But same basic techniques are still used to get a proper hat.

Block, pelt and shape a few dozen of Winchester's beaver bodies and see if you still hold your opinions on "what it takes to build a hat."

 

[belfastboy]

There definitely seems to be a market for felt body suppliers. It just aggravates me because I believe we are at a high point in hat sales, they are trendy right now, and yet every hat maker that pops up pretty much does the same thing with the same felts. They always brag about their old equipment, lost art, blah blah, then they use the same techniques as all the rest to make a finished hat that's no better than any other. We're missing the key part here.

There are so few beaver felters out in the market. The vast majority of hatters use Winchester so they are all dealing with the same base product. That being said, I have custom hats from 10 different hatters and to me they all bring something different to to the table. I can inspect a hat and with decent accuracy tell you who made the hat as they all have a little of the makers mark on them. And yes, some are better than others or at least I prefer the qualities that they have built into the hat over the others.

 

[Yahoody]

Thought this was a fun before and after comparison. Same hat, nothing cut from the brim. Same crown height. There was one more rebuilt between the photos. The original hat body is now just a few months shy of being 6 years old. Hard for me to believe it is still the original hat I started with.

 

[Yahoody]

I had forgotten I posted the silver belly I had rebuilt for my birthday above. It has become one of my "go to town" hats now. Below is the on going story of the same black, beaver felt, I started this story with.

I built this hat almost exactly 3 years ago on a Winchester 100% beaver blank.

Can't tell you just how many days I have worn it riding, working, or just going to town in it. But a lot...easily a full year's worth, 365+ days for sure. I've done nothing to it but brush it off a time or two. Just twice that I remember as it does get pretty dusty here in the Fall.

The photo below was Sept 2020 just prior to brushing it off the 2nd time. Hat looks pretty much like new today. That says a lot for a hat I actually use daily around here. I can pretty much "crush" a decent store bought western felt here in a few months time. Much to my chagrin! A 100% beaver hat built right? Likely it will be a life time hat for most anyone, including myself.

 

[Yahoody]

Sept. 2021 just after I brushed it off again. Just starting its fifth year of use since new.

Rebuilt once to date. This Silver Belly was my first build. This one is just starting year 7.

 

[Yahoody]

This thread is now 4 years old. Hope it has helped a few aspiring hat makers.

Just a heads up, "I am no longer a source for felt".

 

[dmeist]

Just now starting making hats. Enjoyed the thread. Thanks.

 

[Who?]

I don't wear my hats as hard as Yahoody, but this twenty-year-old Rich Rand hat has been my every-day hat for many of those years.

Now that it is winter, I think I’ll go back to it, and keep my light sand Akubra Territory, with the vent holes, for summer. I should wear my silver belly 100% beaver duplicate Rand hat more often. It even has the same hat band. (the black one is a mix)

 

[Yahoody]

Another year gone by and still wearing the same old hats.

 

[Who?]

You seem to have a nice assortment to choose from.

 

[Yahoody]

>You seem to have a nice assortment to choose from.

I do. Shockingly so, frankly! I did have a new hat made for me about this time last year. It was a long lost order by the hat maker. Other wise I wouldn't accepted it.

These days when I want a "new" hat I just go through my stack of over a dozen hat boxes, 2 or 3 nice hats to a box, and find something I like there. If not, there are another 2 dozen hats just hanging around I generally just pick the hat that doesn't squish my head too badly that particular day.

Going to take some to get me to buy another new hat. Heaven forbid, but short of a catastrophic house fire, not seeing that actually happening ever again.

I did however slightly change the style of hat I am wearing currently. Likely to change back again shortly. Back to a 4.5" brim, down from a 5", some shape to it and a dent in the crown. Easier in and out of the truck this time of year.

Same old hat...but new then, from 8 years ago.

Rebuilt for the first time, just over two years ago, in late summer.

Same hat today....

Not many material things I enjoy and appreciate, as much as, a nice hat.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

@Yahoody I have appreciated all the time and reflection you have provided this thread, which has been an encouragement to me. I am a new hatter. I am discovering all the methods that would suit what I am trying to accomplish hat-wise. I am finding blocks somewhat easily. By stroke of luck, I found a vintage block in my very size at an antique store which I bought. The owner of another antique store I visited said she collected blocks but she doesn't use them or make hats, which hurt my heart. She wouldn't sell any from her collection.​

I want to share with you some pictures of my first two hats I made and the vintage block I used. I am hand-sewing everything and using 100% rabbit at the moment. I want to move on to beaver but I can't find any capelines. I called Winchester and spoke to them about supplying some felts but they said they dont take outside orders anymore. I guess they sell all they make through their returning hatters. Either way. I am still looking. I found a trapper in Wisconsin who does "beaver population control" and I know he sells the pelts to local hatters. He offered to sell to me but they are raw, frozen and need of refrigeration for long-distance transport. Felting is a whole other process, but perhaps, something to consider if one wants to make a handcrafted hat from pelt to hat.​

Thanks, again, to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I am not so much in to fedoras, but I am glad I found this Western thread in The Fedora Lounge.​

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

@Yahoody I have appreciated all the time and reflection you have provided this thread, which has been an encouragement to me. I am a new hatter. I am discovering all the methods that would suit what I am trying to accomplish hat-wise. I am finding blocks somewhat easily. By stroke of luck, I found a vintage block in my very size at an antique store which I bought. The owner of another antique store I visited said she collected blocks but she doesn't use them or make hats, which hurt my heart. She wouldn't sell any from her collection.​

I want to share with you some pictures of my first two hats I made and the vintage block I used. I am hand-sewing everything and using 100% rabbit at the moment. I want to move on to beaver but I can't find any capelines. I called Winchester and spoke to them about supplying some felts but they said they dont take outside orders anymore. I guess they sell all they make through their returning hatters. Either way. I am still looking. I found a trapper in Wisconsin who does "beaver population control" and I know he sells the pelts to local hatters. He offered to sell to me but they are raw, frozen and need of refrigeration for long-distance transport. Felting is a whole other process, but perhaps, something to consider if one wants to make a handcrafted hat from pelt to hat.​

Thanks, again, to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I am not so much in to fedoras, but I am glad I found this Western thread in The Fedora Lounge.​

Welcome to the lounge @mattsteinfeld.
I like the hats you’ve made. Good job.
Block 151 rings a bell but i can’t recall exactly what hats i’ve seen that use it.
Keep in touch with the lady with the blocks, people who hold onto stuff often times change their mind if they can pass their collections onto someone who will truly appreciate them. Especially old folks.
Best wishes and again welcome, everything you need is here, except felters.
B

 

[belfastboy]

@Yahoody I have appreciated all the time and reflection you have provided this thread, which has been an encouragement to me. I am a new hatter. I am discovering all the methods that would suit what I am trying to accomplish hat-wise. I am finding blocks somewhat easily. By stroke of luck, I found a vintage block in my very size at an antique store which I bought. The owner of another antique store I visited said she collected blocks but she doesn't use them or make hats, which hurt my heart. She wouldn't sell any from her collection.​

I want to share with you some pictures of my first two hats I made and the vintage block I used. I am hand-sewing everything and using 100% rabbit at the moment. I want to move on to beaver but I can't find any capelines. I called Winchester and spoke to them about supplying some felts but they said they dont take outside orders anymore. I guess they sell all they make through their returning hatters. Either way. I am still looking. I found a trapper in Wisconsin who does "beaver population control" and I know he sells the pelts to local hatters. He offered to sell to me but they are raw, frozen and need of refrigeration for long-distance transport. Felting is a whole other process, but perhaps, something to consider if one wants to make a handcrafted hat from pelt to hat.​

Thanks, again, to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I am not so much in to fedoras, but I am glad I found this Western thread in The Fedora Lounge.​

Try to open a conversation with "HatsByGrizz" he had an Instagram post a while back showing a hat he had made from felt he had made from raw fibre. He may be willing to share some knowledge.

 

[belfastboy]

@Yahoody I have appreciated all the time and reflection you have provided this thread, which has been an encouragement to me. I am a new hatter. I am discovering all the methods that would suit what I am trying to accomplish hat-wise. I am finding blocks somewhat easily. By stroke of luck, I found a vintage block in my very size at an antique store which I bought. The owner of another antique store I visited said she collected blocks but she doesn't use them or make hats, which hurt my heart. She wouldn't sell any from her collection.​

I want to share with you some pictures of my first two hats I made and the vintage block I used. I am hand-sewing everything and using 100% rabbit at the moment. I want to move on to beaver but I can't find any capelines. I called Winchester and spoke to them about supplying some felts but they said they dont take outside orders anymore. I guess they sell all they make through their returning hatters. Either way. I am still looking. I found a trapper in Wisconsin who does "beaver population control" and I know he sells the pelts to local hatters. He offered to sell to me but they are raw, frozen and need of refrigeration for long-distance transport. Felting is a whole other process, but perhaps, something to consider if one wants to make a handcrafted hat from pelt to hat.​

Thanks, again, to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I am not so much in to fedoras, but I am glad I found this Western thread in The Fedora Lounge.​

If you want beaver felts contact Tim at purebeaverhatsupply.com. He can fit you up with high quality beaver felts, dress weight, western weight in pure beaver or beaver blend. They are very pricey but high quality.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

Best wishes and again welcome, everything you need is here, except felters.

Thank you @AbbaDatDeHat. I appreciate the warm welcome.

Winchester was pretty adamant about not selling to new customers as of May 2023. I called them and begged, even planned on visiting the factory as I am living in Tennessee to help the persuasion of proving my legitimacy as a well-meaning hatmaker.

I tried Fepsa's site, which asks for 4 prompts but when I fill those out, nothing ever comes up. I have tried pretty much every combination just for test. I emailed them recently but haven't heard back. It's only been a few days, though.

There are other sites I have found, but they seem to be either reselling Winchester or Fepsa capelines. I dont know that fore sure, but the descriptions seem really close. As far as I know only Hatco (Stetson, Resistol) and Winchester are the only USA manufacturers of quality control felts at the factor level, Fepsa being Portuguese.

I am aware of many custom hat-makers in the USA, and they have all told me they use either Winchester (old customers) or Fepsa. Those that use Fepsa usually say their hats are made of "euro hare" (which is fancy way of saying "rabbit")

I know this is a hot topic these days, and perhaps, a well-kept secret among hatters, but do you (or anyone else reading) know where to get 100% beaver capelines these days?

Try to open a conversation with "HatsByGrizz" he had an Instagram post a while back showing a hat he had made from felt he had made from raw fibre. He may be willing to share some knowledge.

Thank you! Lil Grizz has been very informative in the past via his YouTube channel. I saw him wet felt a capeline there. So much is available on YouTube about felting wool, especially by makers a fascinators (sp?) and women’s British hats. I imagine the process is similar for rabbit/beaver/nutria?

 

[mattsteinfeld]

If you want beaver felts contact Tim at purebeaverhatsupply.com. He can fit you up with high quality beaver felts, dress weight, western weight in pure beaver or beaver blend. They are very pricey but high quality.

I have been in contact with Tim. He is very nice and helpful. Do you know if they manufacture/felt their own capelines at Pure Beaver? I didn’t ask him directly as to not offend him. It doesn’t matter that much to me other than if Tim is getting them from Fepsa in bulk and reselling (which it sounded like he was ordering mass quantities and not making them), I don’t need a middle man and the upcharge. I may be totally off. Please correct me if I am. Tim, to me, was nothing short of a gentleman. I genuinely would just like to know where they are coming from if not from his company.

Winchester told me on the phone their customers do not resell their capelines, or at least they shouldn’t, in principle! Thanks for the help.

 

[belfastboy]

Thank you @AbbaDatDeHat. I appreciate the warm welcome.

Winchester was pretty adamant about not selling to new customers as of May 2023. I called them and begged, even planned on visiting the factory as I am living in Tennessee to help the persuasion of proving my legitimacy as a well-meaning hatmaker.

I tried Fepsa's site, which asks for 4 prompts but when I fill those out, nothing ever comes up. I have tried pretty much every combination just for test. I emailed them recently but haven't heard back. It's only been a few days, though.

There are other sites I have found, but they seem to be either reselling Winchester or Fepsa capelines. I dont know that fore sure, but the descriptions seem really close. As far as I know only Hatco (Stetson, Resistol) and Winchester are the only USA manufacturers of quality control felts at the factor level, Fepsa being Portuguese.

I am aware of many custom hat-makers in the USA, and they have all told me they use either Winchester (old customers) or Fepsa. Those that use Fepsa usually say their hats are made of "euro hare" (which is fancy way of saying "rabbit")

I know this is a hot topic these days, and perhaps, a well-kept secret among hatters, but do you (or anyone else reading) know where to get 100% beaver capelines these days?

Thank you! Lil Grizz has been very informative in the past via his YouTube channel. I saw him wet felt a capeline there. So much is available on YouTube about felting wool, especially by makers a fascinators (sp?) and women’s British hats. I imagine the process is similar for rabbit/beaver/nutria?

No, felting from fur is similar to wool but so much more complex.

The difficulty; you need to separate the coarse outer guard hairs, then lots of heat and pressure....which is hard to replicate at home. I suspect it can be done but your results would be far inferior to what machinery can accomplish. Might be a fun thing to try though.
Winchester has told me they have a wait list of over 200 hatters....in the last 8 years they have taken just 4 hatters from that list. They no longer bother adding names to the wait list as likely we will not live long enough for our name to reach the top. Even those hatters that can buy from Winchester it is taking them upwards of 12 months to receive orders.

FEPSA is a factory , a very large factory and is not interested in selling small orders. Tim @purebeaver is the NA distributor and can set you up. Also if you check out the FEPSA website they do list individual felts for sale.....leftovers, overruns, remainders are for sale at a good price. FEPSA has trouble meeting the orders of their existing clients and they too are not accepting any new customers.
Millinery Warehouse has great felts but their beaver stock is limited and when they get stock it sells out almost immediately. Keep an eye on their website, get on their contact list and you will alerted next time a shipment comes in.

 

[belfastboy]

I have been in contact with Tim. He is very nice and helpful. Do you know if they manufacture/felt their own capelines at Pure Beaver? I didn’t ask him directly as to not offend him. It doesn’t matter that much to me other than if Tim is getting them from Fepsa in bulk and reselling (which it sounded like he was ordering mass quantities and not making them), I don’t need a middle man and the upcharge. I may be totally off. Please correct me if I am. Tim, to me, was nothing short of a gentleman. I genuinely would just like to know where they are coming from if not from his company.

Winchester told me on the phone their customers do not resell their capelines, or at least they shouldn’t, in principle! Thanks for the help.

Tim only imports felts from FEPSA. He is the NA distributor. Just as the Millinery Whse is the distributor for Ukraine felts. And Gherson in NY is the distributor for Tonak. Factories are not interested in selling small quantities of felts to individual hatters.

I make upwards of 100 hats per year. I have at least a year's inventory right now and still no factory would sell beaver felts to me as I am far too small for them to bother with.

Hatters that can buy from Winchester would be loathe to sell to you as beaver felt supply is so hard to get that no one is willing to part with beaver felts. Back 5 years ago I could pick up the odd Winchester felt from another hatter as supply was plentiful but those days are gone.