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Lost Worlds jackets.

Arnold

One of the Regulars
Messages
214
Location
Europe
Apparently I disagree with most previous postings. Will try to keep it short, but first and most pressing, two warnings, from experience:

1. Re: the advice against horsehide jackets that are tight in the beginning: the utter opposite is true, and I'm not the only guy to say this. Whether it's boots or protective motorcycle gear, if you want a good fit for life, then your start MUST be tight. The leather will never mold to your body shape if it's not tight to start with! A) It will not be able to follow your movements properly, and B) it will not even be able to absorb enough body heat to warm up to temperatures that make it malleable. If you start out loose, it will hang on you like a bag later on. See also item 3, and keep in mind that the correct way (as in: intended by the inventor) to wear jackets with belts is to fasten those belts and have the jacket sit on the hips, not hang from the shoulders!

2. Re: the advice to ask LW for numbers: he's VERY reluctant to give any. Instead, in my experience he will ask you for your measurements, and may look at photos of you if you send any. I am most happy with all of my LW jackets (bought three so far, from various production periods; one was 2nd hand) and I will gladly buy again from him, but the sizing process was very cumbersome because of his secrecy. His method is not as successful as he would like it to be, either. At one point he recommended a size that I know now would have been two (!) units large (42 instead of 38). He also commented on a photo of me wearing a Schott jacket that he perceived the fit as "on the trim side" whereas for me it was comfortable, borderline too loose (especially as an MC riding jacket that's supposed to protect). I'm glad I was stubborn to stick with my gut feeling that I obtained from looking at many of his photos, my own photos, generally taking time, and reading his emails "between the lines" - and I still had to have my J23 taken in at the waist a bit and am glad I chose a custom shorter sleeve length. I could very well wear the J23 in size 36 as long as I didn't zip it up to the neck! And if you don't need a riding jacket but just a pedestrian one, zipping up to the chest is enough.

More comparatively speaking:

3. That LW J23 runs a bit large compared to the motorcycle jackets from Schott, Vanson and Hein Gericke that I've worn. Both in length and width (esp. waist). The 38 mentioned above is despite my usual preferred size being 40, and the 38's shoulders & chest are still more comfortable than the 40 Schott's when both are fully zipped up and I'm in pedestrian mode (i.e. arms down).

4. I think Americans tend to wear looser fits than Europeans, and because of that habit, they will call something TTS that many Europeans would find too loose, too long in the sleeves, etc.
If this is correct, it may have to with the bigger prevalance of overweight conditions in the US as well as with simply different taste. I've read about the latter on several forums. It's said to be something acquired in childhood and never grown out of. Please note I'm not judging. Just mentioning differences. And I'm not a fan of modern "slim fit" styles, either, in fact they suffer from the same error as too loose fits (lack of V-shape).
I also wonder if oversizing has to do with belt lines dropping lower and lower over the decades. If you combine a 70s MC jacket with modern low rise jeans, you'll most likely expose your belly button... Personally I regret this trend and wish that pants were higher and jackets shorter again.

5. Keep in mind that the people in this forum will always (pun not intended) gravitate more or less towards the heavier side of body shapes simply due to the age and/ or the financial situation we need to reach to afford the stuff we're talking about here, especially in any "collector's" quantities (I don't know anyone in RL/ outside this forum who owns more than one leather jacket above $150, and neither did I before my mid 30s). Some manufacturers may take this into account more than others, and in LW's case, I think it's "more".
 

Milesdeathescape

One of the Regulars
Messages
140
Location
Expatriate
Apparently I disagree with most previous postings. Will try to keep it short, but first and most pressing, two warnings, from experience:

1. Re: the advice against horsehide jackets that are tight in the beginning: the utter opposite is true, and I'm not the only guy to say this. Whether it's boots or protective motorcycle gear, if you want a good fit for life, then your start MUST be tight. The leather will never mold to your body shape if it's not tight to start with! A) It will not be able to follow your movements properly, and B) it will not even be able to absorb enough body heat to warm up to temperatures that make it malleable. If you start out loose, it will hang on you like a bag later on. See also item 3, and keep in mind that the correct way (as in: intended by the inventor) to wear jackets with belts is to fasten those belts and have the jacket sit on the hips, not hang from the shoulders!

2. Re: the advice to ask LW for numbers: he's VERY reluctant to give any. Instead, in my experience he will ask you for your measurements, and may look at photos of you if you send any. I am most happy with all of my LW jackets (bought three so far, from various production periods; one was 2nd hand) and I will gladly buy again from him, but the sizing process was very cumbersome because of his secrecy. His method is not as successful as he would like it to be, either. At one point he recommended a size that I know now would have been two (!) units large (42 instead of 38). He also commented on a photo of me wearing a Schott jacket that he perceived the fit as "on the trim side" whereas for me it was comfortable, borderline too loose (especially as an MC riding jacket that's supposed to protect). I'm glad I was stubborn to stick with my gut feeling that I obtained from looking at many of his photos, my own photos, generally taking time, and reading his emails "between the lines" - and I still had to have my J23 taken in at the waist a bit and am glad I chose a custom shorter sleeve length. I could very well wear the J23 in size 36 as long as I didn't zip it up to the neck! And if you don't need a riding jacket but just a pedestrian one, zipping up to the chest is enough.

More comparatively speaking:

3. That LW J23 runs a bit large compared to the motorcycle jackets from Schott, Vanson and Hein Gericke that I've worn. Both in length and width (esp. waist). The 38 mentioned above is despite my usual preferred size being 40, and the 38's shoulders & chest are still more comfortable than the 40 Schott's when both are fully zipped up and I'm in pedestrian mode (i.e. arms down).

4. I think Americans tend to wear looser fits than Europeans, and because of that habit, they will call something TTS that many Europeans would find too loose, too long in the sleeves, etc.
If this is correct, it may have to with the bigger prevalance of overweight conditions in the US as well as with simply different taste. I've read about the latter on several forums. It's said to be something acquired in childhood and never grown out of. Please note I'm not judging. Just mentioning differences. And I'm not a fan of modern "slim fit" styles, either, in fact they suffer from the same error as too loose fits (lack of V-shape).
I also wonder if oversizing has to do with belt lines dropping lower and lower over the decades. If you combine a 70s MC jacket with modern low rise jeans, you'll most likely expose your belly button... Personally I regret this trend and wish that pants were higher and jackets shorter again.

5. Keep in mind that the people in this forum will always (pun not intended) gravitate more or less towards the heavier side of body shapes simply due to the age and/ or the financial situation we need to reach to afford the stuff we're talking about here, especially in any "collector's" quantities (I don't know anyone in RL/ outside this forum who owns more than one leather jacket above $150, and neither did I before my mid 30s). Some manufacturers may take this into account more than others, and in LW's case, I think it's "more".
I see what you’re saying. I have owned a Vanson vintage and it was meant for the track... tight fitting and perfect for riding. As a street wear coat it’s definitely poser to wear without a bike. While I have never owned an LW motorcycle jacket, I will say Stuart is a man of his word and makes the best possible fits for his customers. He guarantees his product and I have stood behind this claim as a first hand witness when I encountered a problem. If you’re looking for a sport bike jacket then you should number one, probably be in a Vanson. Number two, Lost Worlds makes CLASSIC riding jackets meant for a classic rider style. Your claim about horse hide not becoming malleable unless it’s close to your skin is debatable. I have a lose fitting WW2 HH Swedish M1909 that’s soft as butter! While I agree with you on everything else you said, you have to remember what market LW is aiming at. It’s the real vintage replica customer. Not the Dainese. For aggressive riders like you and I, I can say that tighter is better but if you’re just cruising on a street bob then you’re probably wearing Vans anyways.


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Guppy

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,333
Location
Cleveland, OH
See also item 3, and keep in mind that the correct way (as in: intended by the inventor) to wear jackets with belts is to fasten those belts and have the jacket sit on the hips, not hang from the shoulders!

Is that why? I thought the belt was for hanging gear, sealing against drafts, and preventing the jacket from sliding up in the event of a crash, keeping it in place so it can do its job and protect the wearer.
 

Arnold

One of the Regulars
Messages
214
Location
Europe
@Milesdeathescape: I don't fully understand your reply. I agree, and never said otherwise, that Stuart is a man of his words, and I'm sure he tries to get customers a good fit as best as he can - WITHIN his chosen method, which unfortunatey involves some secrecy on his part, and within his field of experience, which may include few Western customers with the typical body shape of a young and athletic person (he has or used to have many Japanese customers, but those once more tend towards less V-shaped torsi).
But anyway, if you've never owned a LW, what "problem" did you encounter?
On horsehide malleablity, again what you say doesn't seem to contradict what I said, although you seem to think so...? I thought we were talking specifically of tough hides as LW uses, since this is a LW thread, and not of buttery soft ones. It's obvious that soft hide doesn't need to be broken in like tough hide, so with softer leathers of course you can start with any fit you want and always get good long term results.

Is that why? I thought the belt was for hanging gear, sealing against drafts, and preventing the jacket from sliding up in the event of a crash, keeping it in place so it can do its job and protect the wearer.

I agree that the belt does all that, but it does all that so much better when the jacket sits on the hips instead of hanging from the shoulders. Again, I don't see a contradiction here.

But even if you don't have anything hanging from your belt, don't mind the draft and if you don't ride - no, especially when you don't ride, ANY MC jacket will fit better on the chest if it "sits"/ doesn't "hang". Because MC jackets are constructed for a more or less lifted arm position, hands resting on bars, the chest is always tighter than on pedestrian wear - otherwise the fit would be too fluffy WITH the arms lifted. I other words, a correctly sized MC jacket (no matter if Schott/ LW/ Vanson/ etc) will be too tight when zipped up but not riding, and over time the wearer may acquire posture flaws to compensate. And this is aggravated when the jackets "hangs". ...Maybe THAT is why they are mostly worn so oversized now...
 

Milesdeathescape

One of the Regulars
Messages
140
Location
Expatriate
@Milesdeathescape: I don't fully understand your reply. I agree, and never said otherwise, that Stuart is a man of his words, and I'm sure he tries to get customers a good fit as best as he can - WITHIN his chosen method, which unfortunatey involves some secrecy on his part, and within his field of experience, which may include few Western customers with the typical body shape of a young and athletic person (he has or used to have many Japanese customers, but those once more tend towards less V-shaped torsi).
But anyway, if you've never owned a LW, what "problem" did you encounter?
On horsehide malleablity, again what you say doesn't seem to contradict what I said, although you seem to think so...? I thought we were talking specifically of tough hides as LW uses, since this is a LW thread, and not of buttery soft ones. It's obvious that soft hide doesn't need to be broken in like tough hide, so with softer leathers of course you can start with any fit you want and always get good long term results.



I agree that the belt does all that, but it does all that so much better when the jacket sits on the hips instead of hanging from the shoulders. Again, I don't see a contradiction here.

But even if you don't have anything hanging from your belt, don't mind the draft and if you don't ride - no, especially when you don't ride, ANY MC jacket will fit better on the chest if it "sits"/ doesn't "hang". Because MC jackets are constructed for a more or less lifted arm position, hands resting on bars, the chest is always tighter than on pedestrian wear - otherwise the fit would be too fluffy WITH the arms lifted. I other words, a correctly sized MC jacket (no matter if Schott/ LW/ Vanson/ etc) will be too tight when zipped up but not riding, and over time the wearer may acquire posture flaws to compensate. And this is aggravated when the jackets "hangs". ...Maybe THAT is why they are mostly worn so oversized now...

I have never owned a Motorcycle specific coat from LW. I own an ANJ4 which has been claimed to be too stiff but the real problem is people don’t live in a climate they can wear it enough. I do. I live in Norway and have been wearing it since November. It was stiff like plastic when I got it and now it’s butter soft in a good way conformed to my body shape. Still tough as nails. My point about your LW HH claim is that it’s possible to have a loser fit and still get a nice break in. People need to just wear it a lot to start. Sleep in it! I love my LW butt here was an internal problem with one of the panels on my coat causing a crack. There was no way of detecting it before the color process. Stuart apologized immensely and offered to pay for shipping all the way back from Norway to replace the panel.


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Americanaaa Mark

A-List Customer
Messages
443
I have his most expensive jacket (j24l with studs) and it is the most mixed feeling purchases of mine. So many things about it are right while I feel at times I wonder if it will look good in the future on me. I would never get rid of it.

If I were to lose some body fat and gain muscle I wonder if it will change the entire appearance and for the better in this jacket
 

Americanaaa Mark

A-List Customer
Messages
443
Just how much can a good leather tailor do? There is a post in this thread that basically says lost world jackets are cut for middle aged men who have become kinda fat and to be honest... he is right. I love my j24l by them but the fact that this jacket makes it look like I have a beer belly really pisses me off. The shoulder and chest measurements are perfect but the waist, arms, etc look like I'm swimming in them. No other jacket I have makes it look like a wood barrel makes up my belly. The leather is stiff as hell too so I walk around with this thing and it is bulgy. Can this be fixed by Johnson Leather? I heard they are great at modifying jackets and fits.
 
Last edited:

Arnold

One of the Regulars
Messages
214
Location
Europe
@Milesdeathescape: Thanks for clarifying that. Very interesting. A quick google search shows me the ANJ4 is lined with thick fur, so I have no idea how it feels and wears compared to the jackets I know. Great to hear it's now butter soft and yet still tough as nails, and about Stuart's reaction to the problem, too.

@Americanaaa Mark: this may sound like sacrilege or just plain scary for a $2000 or so jacket, but I can wholeheartedly recommend having it taken in a bit at the waist. Of course only PROVIDED you find someone who works those hides similarly well as Lost Worlds, i.e. if you can get the seams to be of similar quality than before.

It's too bad Stuart doesn't offer a bit more customization in terms of fit. His stuff (that I know) is so good in all other respects I'd probably be willing to bear the necessary mark-up. So far, to my knowledge you can only pay for custom lengths (for torso and/ OR sleeves), not custom custom tapers.
However, I think that choosing a custom "short" length and then daring to wear more high-cut pants than one is used to may yield a somewhat satisfactory result with regards to taper (because the widths don't change, so the angles change).
Due to the markup and non-refundability I'd only recommend this for guys who already know how the respective stock size looks on them.

I wonder if length was the culprit to begin with - i.e. whether Stuart possibly made the jacket a bit longer than the historical pattern (to accomodate the fact that nobody wears their pants up to their navel anymore, which was certainly common in the 30s and 40s) while NOT adjusting waist width and hence ending up with very little tapering, so that we'd now have to reverse the process...?
Or maybe the J23 is really just a totally hardcore riding jacket and isn't even supposed to fit well and feel and look good as soon as the arms are lowered and it's still zipped up. Cf. my rambling above. In that case, as I said, buy tight, zip it up, wear a belt, and ride, and when you walk, undo zipper and belt to avoid the "barrel" feel.
 

jacketjunkie

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,318
Location
Germany
Just how much can a good leather tailor do? There is a post in this thread that basically says lost world jackets are cut for middle aged men who have become kinda fat and to be honest... he is right. I love my j24l by them but the fact that this jacket makes it look like I have a beer belly really pisses me off. The shoulder and chest measurements are perfect but the waist, arms, etc look like I'm swimming in them. No other jacket I have makes it look like a wood barrel makes up my belly. The leather is stiff as hell too so I walk around with this thing and it is bulgy. Can this be fixed by Johnson Leather? I heard they are great at modifying jackets and fits.

Most tailors don't have the hardware to work heavy leathers. Even most leather tailors are not used to working on leather as thick as 4 oz; they do have the hardware but their lack of experience will show on the stitching. If I wanted this done, I would contact Alan at JL, they have a great deal of experience with heavy leather. The task itself to take in the waist on a jacket isn't that complicated. They can open the side seams, take it in half an inch or smething on each side and sew the panels together again. Personally, I'd rather sell the LW or keep it for the times I do have developed a beer belly and get a different jacket with the desired fit though. From my experience, from my experience this altering of leather jackets more often than not results in even more dollars spent, things not working out the way imagined, more disappointment and they can't be undone and immensely affect the value of the jacket in question.
 
Messages
16,803
@jacketjunkie - That!

Worst part is they'll take on the job, realize they can't do it, still try and botch everything up. I've had some good experience from taking a jacket to a leather tailor and some bad. It can be done but I certainly wouldn't risk it with a jacket that costs couple of grands.

Personally, I wouldn't care what the jacket fits me, as long as I liked it because of the most valuable lesson I've learned on this journey is that what's we see in the mirror is a lie, nobody in the world cares, look is subjective and therefore irrelevant and there's no right and wrong. . . But I digress. Keep the jacket if you like it.
 

Americanaaa Mark

A-List Customer
Messages
443
Most tailors don't have the hardware to work heavy leathers. Even most leather tailors are not used to working on leather as thick as 4 oz; they do have the hardware but their lack of experience will show on the stitching. If I wanted this done, I would contact Alan at JL, they have a great deal of experience with heavy leather. The task itself to take in the waist on a jacket isn't that complicated. They can open the side seams, take it in half an inch or smething on each side and sew the panels together again. Personally, I'd rather sell the LW or keep it for the times I do have developed a beer belly and get a different jacket with the desired fit though. From my experience, from my experience this altering of leather jackets more often than not results in even more dollars spent, things not working out the way imagined, more disappointment and they can't be undone and immensely affect the value of the jacket in question.
Yup, I would never bring it to a random tailor only someone who makes leather jackets. I was thinking of JL.

To be honest it has to be done. There is virtually no taper from the pits down to the waist and it's a longer jacket. I'm cool with the length and am willing to wear it with my low rise abominations but the thing needs to taper and not make me look fat. What can go wrong? From what I'm aware the Real Mccoy's j24l does this.

the sleeves are also too long on me and kinda baggy. Can this be tailor fixed too by Johnson Leather?

Keep in mind Stuart chose the size 44 for me and it is the right size for me because the shoulder and chest measurements are perfect for me.
 

TREEMAN

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,562
Location
USA
AM I went back to look at your orig. pics and I don't think it looks as bad as your making out. Your being to critical on yourself. IMO it's still too stiff and needs to break in more......
 

TREEMAN

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,562
Location
USA
AM I went back to look at your orig. pics and I don't think it looks as bad as your making out. Your being to critical on yourself. IMO it's still too stiff and needs to break in more......
Also, IMO most of the newer MC jackets don't have a V-TAPER look anymore....Years ago the shoulders were worn wider witch gave it that look...now the shoulders are worn tighter.......
 

El Marro

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,591
Location
California
Americanaaa Mark,
I had great success having an A-2 I bought that was a little too big everywhere (sleeves, chest, stomach) slimmed down to fit me well. This was obviously a much lighter hide than your LW. Also, I was able to visit the tailor in person and have him mark and pin everything with the jacket on me.
I am sure that Alan and Johnson can handle the task of slimming down your jacket, my biggest concern would be getting the numbers right if you ar unable to visit them in person.
Good Luck!
 
Messages
17,490
Location
Chicago
I'd be very careful about having anyone other than the original maker alter the jacket. I'm sure Alan could do it but if you aren't satisfied with the fit I'd be asking the folks who made it first. Often times changing one aspect means another needs to be changed congruently or the proportions become strange.
That said I would trust Alan to do it but maybe reach out to Stu first.
 

navetsea

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,843
Location
East Java
I'm still amazed how to calculate size based on height and weight alone. people can be a massive triangular dude or pearshaped with a big gut and still sharing the same height and weight.
 

Guppy

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,333
Location
Cleveland, OH
I'd be very careful about having anyone other than the original maker alter the jacket. I'm sure Alan could do it but if you aren't satisfied with the fit I'd be asking the folks who made it first. Often times changing one aspect means another needs to be changed congruently or the proportions become strange.
That said I would trust Alan to do it but maybe reach out to Stu first.

Seconded. ALWAYS go with the original maker, if possible. They know their techniques and will be best able to match the quality and style of the work. The only reason to go with someone else IMO is if they no longer are in business, or you just aren't satisfied with the quality of their work, and are trying to salvage a bad buy, or if the original vendor is just unreasonable to work with. I guess if the wait was excessive, or it cost a lot more, or shipping made it prohibitive, those would be reasonable considerations too, but I still say the original maker should do the best work, assuming they do alteration work at all. Of course they may be more likely to try to steer you toward a remake rather than an alteration, and that might not be bad advice if you can afford it.
 

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