Looking for a new Cafe Racer, what am I missing?

[pawineguy]

If you're wearing an armored shirt already I recommend a kangaroo cafe racer. When worn sans armor it's very light and great for casual wear. But on the bike, it has much better abrasion protection than cow and twice as good as goat. Just a question of what jacket attributes matter the most to you.

Thanks Ykurtz. For this jacket I've decided to go with a heavier steer, mainly because I have found a unique design that I really like from a company I've not purchased from in the past. It'll be around the same weight as Vanson competition weight leather, not sure if it will be as stiff. More details to follow.

 

[ProteinNerd]

I'm intrigued....who are you going with?

 

[pawineguy]

One interesting item of note is that Langlitz is no longer producing jackets in what they called their Heavy cowhide. The medium, at 3 - 3.5 oz., will be the heaviest they are working with going forward.

 

[Monitor]

Vanson's comp. weight is 3.5 oz, right?

It is misguiding to call leather that's over 3 oz. medium weight leather. Anything over 2 oz. is heavy. It's because of things like that that we hear people calling Aero's FQHH or Schott cow 'flimsy thin'... Ridiculous.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Stephens, L.J. (1987). "Stratigraphic analysis of kangaroo leather". Journal of the American Leather Chemists Association 82

Kangaroo leather is unique in its structure, totally different than horse or cow, which obviously makes sense as they are such a different animal. The main difference is that all of the fibers are arranged neatly in one direction (parallel) as opposed to fibers running in multiple directions, which creates weak points. What this also allows is for Kangaroo to be skivved down without losing much of its strength. I believe the numbers aren't even close, as Ykurtz states, Kangaroo is substantially stronger.

Kangaroo is often described as more abrasion resistant, tougher, as having greater tensile strength, etc, that's not new info but where is the evidence? I'd like to see more rigorous, more recent analysis of this.

 

[Monitor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangaroo_leather

Seems like a very strong hide, if any of this is to be taken seriously.

 

[Damo]

Looking forward to seeing what you got!!!

 

[Fanch]

PA I am very curious as to your final decision and like others await your telling us how you have already decided to proceed.

 

[navetsea]

I think what they're trying to say, kangaroo is the strongest hide in that weight class, would be stronger than cow or horse if they're shaved down to kangaroo's thickness, stronger than goat, while keeping a very light weight jacket ideal for racing purpose.

It doesn't mean kangaroo will outperform heavy thick cow or horse in tear resistance as long as you're willing to carry the extra weight.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I know what they are saying, I've heard the claims for years. I'd still like to see a reputable source for this belief. Which I have been happy to share. I have spoken to leather manufacturers who have stated that roo out performs cow on every test - whatever those tests are... Surely there's more than anecdote.

 

[Carlos840]

From doing a lot of reading on leathers for motorcycle riding, i think the main advantage of kangaroo is the fact that it can be very thin while still offering protection.
I have a pair of Held Phantom racing gloves, they are made of roo, the palm is so thin, flexible and soft it really feels like you aren't wearing anything.
Still, they have been crash tested by loads of riders without rubbing through, and are considered some of the best gloves around.
There is no way you could have such a thin palm in anything made out of goat, deer, cow, without losing protection.

If you really want abrasion resistance, go for stingray, it is the most resistant hide there is, it's 5 times stronger than kangaroo.
It would look weird on a jacket though...

 

[pawineguy]

Vanson's comp. weight is 3.5 oz, right?

It is misguiding to call leather that's over 3 oz. medium weight leather. Anything over 2 oz. is heavy. It's because of things like that that we hear people calling Aero's FQHH or Schott cow 'flimsy thin'... Ridiculous.

Exactly, Vanson Comp weight is 3.5 oz. I believe people think it's heavier than that because it is so stiff initially. People confuse stiffness vs softness as thick vs thin sometimes.

 

[pawineguy]

Kangaroo is often described as more abrasion resistant, tougher, as having greater tensile strength, etc, that's not new info but where is the evidence? I'd like to see more rigorous, more recent analysis of this.

Have Kangaroos and cows changed since 1987?

 

[pawineguy]

PA I am very curious as to your final decision and like others await your telling us how you have already decided to proceed.

After flip flopping back and forth multiple times, I am ordering a jacket from Cal-Leathers, the Ventura. It's a Cafe Racer with a banded bottom like an LAPD jacket. The difference is the band has no belt loops and NO side laces. (not a fan of those) Big one piece back, and I'm deleting the chest pocket to keep the front clean also. 3.5 oz cow, brown stitching, fur lined cuffs and nickel zips. Finalizing dimensions with them now and waiting for a build date. Pics below of the Ventura, including one showing a dress collar and no chest pocket. (mine will be Mandarin collar with no chest pocket.) I'll update when I find out the build time.

The final decision really came down to this being a unique design while still staying true to what I was looking for in a new jacket that I'd ride in. I like that it's another small company... and I don't mind being a guinea pig of sorts.

 

[Monitor]

My next leather jacket will be made from Honey Badger hide.

PG, that's crazy cool jacket and finally something different! I love it. No shoulder gussets?

 

[Fanch]

After flip flopping back and forth multiple times, I am ordering a jacket from Cal-Leathers, the Ventura. It's a Cafe Racer with a banded bottom like an LAPD jacket. The difference is the band has no belt loops and NO side laces. (not a fan of those) Big one piece back, and I'm deleting the chest pocket to keep the front clean also. 3.5 oz cow, brown stitching, fur lined cuffsand nickel zips. Finalizing dimensions with them now and waiting for a build date. Pics below of the Ventura, including one showing a dress collar and no chest pocket. (mine will be Mandarin collar with no chest pocket.) I'll update when I find out the build time.

The final decision really came down to this being a unique design while still staying true to what I was looking for in a new jacket that I'd ride in. I like that it's another small company... and I don't mind being a guinea pig of sorts.

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That appears to be a great riding jacket with the back longer than the front, and a very clean look. To me the critical measurement will be the dimensions of the lower part of the jacket - not too loose but not too tight either.

 

[pawineguy]

That appears to be a great riding jacket with the back longer than the front, and a very clean look. To me the critical measurement will be the dimensions of the lower part of the jacket - not too loose but not too tight either.

Totally agree, and that's also one of the hardest dimensions to get right, imo. I'm sharing with them some dimensions off of other good fitting jackets that also have a longer back to try to really nail that.

 

[pawineguy]

My next leather jacket will be made from Honey Badger hide.

PG, that's crazy cool jacket and finally something different! I love it. No shoulder gussets?

No gussets, so the shoulder and sleeve lengths will have to be just right. I'm spending some extra time working on dimensions to make sure it's a non-issue when riding.

 

[IXL]

After flip flopping back and forth multiple times, I am ordering a jacket from Cal-Leathers, the Ventura. It's a Cafe Racer with a banded bottom like an LAPD jacket. The difference is the band has no belt loops and NO side laces. (not a fan of those) Big one piece back, and I'm deleting the chest pocket to keep the front clean also. 3.5 oz cow, brown stitching, fur lined cuffsand nickel zips. Finalizing dimensions with them now and waiting for a build date. Pics below of the Ventura, including one showing a dress collar and no chest pocket. (mine will be Mandarin collar with no chest pocket.) I'll update when I find out the build time.

The final decision really came down to this being a unique design while still staying true to what I was looking for in a new jacket that I'd ride in. I like that it's another small company... and I don't mind being a guinea pig of sorts.

Brother, that is going to be one killer jacket!!!

 

[Bunyip]

Great stuff Chris! Looking forward to seeing it.