Living in the past

[hatophile]

The heady days of the Jazz Age in the aftermath of WWI in my understanding were days of conspicuous consumption. So his spending is not that out-of-touch with the Era. Instead of flat screen TV's and fancy stereo systems, he buys hats and gramaphones.

 

[William Stratford]

The heady days of the Jazz Age in the aftermath of WWI in my understanding were days of conspicuous consumption. So his spending is not that out-of-touch with the Era. Instead of flat screen TV's and fancy stereo systems, he buys hats and gramaphones.

Indeed, but I see that as the declining of older values rather than the continuance of them - the whole "bright young thing" era between the wars (usually by the spoiled and purposeless children of the monied classes) was the beginning of much of the decline we came to see afterwards. It saddens me when people look back to that era and seek to emulate what lead us to where we are now.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The twenties were indeed an age of extreme consumption for members of certain social classes -- but that had an end brought to it pretty quick by certain events in 1929-32. Most people, however, were never a part of the "roaring" aspect of the twenties -- they just plugged along the same way they had in 1915.

 

[dhermann1]

WilliamStratford! Where's all the anger coming from?! Michael works and earns a living and spends his money on what he loves. No skin off your (slightly out of joint) nose, is there?
I think part of what he does has to do with his profession. Part of the product he sells (i.e. his music) has to do with the nostalgia, and the full dimensional image of the past that he evokes. And living a lifestyle that involves all the old fashioned stuff is part and parcel of that. He's not the only leader of a 20s band that does this.
Antique car collectors can be real wheeler dealers when it comes to acquiring their babies. They're not all those fat old rich dudes you see on the car auction shows on cable. Anyhow, Michael is a good guy, he's a hard working, working musician, and what he does every year at Governors Island is totally fabulous.

 

[William Stratford]

WilliamStratford! Where's all the anger coming from?! Michael works and earns a living and spends his money on what he loves. No skin off your (slightly out of joint) nose, is there?

No anger on my part, thankyou. Frustration tinged with sadness is a fair distance from such, and if he did not wish for people to comment he should not have appeared in the Newspaper. [huh]

 

[hatophile]

WilliamStratford! Where's all the anger coming from?! Michael works and earns a living and spends his money on what he loves. No skin off your (slightly out of joint) nose, is there?
I think part of what he does has to do with his profession. Part of the product he sells (i.e. his music) has to do with the nostalgia, and the full dimensional image of the past that he evokes. And living a lifestyle that involves all the old fashioned stuff is part and parcel of that. He's not the only leader of a 20s band that does this.
Antique car collectors can be real wheeler dealers when it comes to acquiring their babies. They're not all those fat old rich dudes you see on the car auction shows on cable. Anyhow, Michael is a good guy, he's a hard working, working musician, and what he does every year at Governors Island is totally fabulous.

And he works on his own cars!

 

[C-dot]

Taste yes, but it irks me a little when this is presented as the "vintage" life, because all that it seems is consumerism just with "old stuff". [huh] So, basically just like the modern world, which I think is missing the point (unless people are only playing "dress up").

You make quite a valid point. But, it can be argued that none of us really do - or indeed, can - live a totally vintage lifetyle, even if we do hold similar values, because we're living in today. The "30s lady" on the 2008 documentary Time Warp Wives is a great example: modern job, use of computer and weakness for shopping, but other than that, she's pretty spot on. I'm the same way - although I have a very vintage job, appearance and most values, you can't keep me out of shoe stores or away from the MAC Cosmetics counter.

I also like what Mike Bravo says about the man in the article being a conserver, not a consumer. It's tough not to want to buy up every beautiful vintage item you see, especially since you know you're likely saving it!

 

[William Stratford]

You make quite a valid point. But, it can be argued that none of us really do - or indeed, can - live a totally vintage lifetyle, even if we do hold similar values, because we're living in today.

Please, don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that a life has to be 100% "vintage" to somehow be "valid". Just that I tend to get a bit "*sigh*" when I see people expressing pretty much the same consumerist values of the modern world just in a vintage costume (or the worst parts of older days which themselves foreshadowed the problems of the modern age).

I also like what Mike Bravo says about the man in the article being a conserver, not a consumer. It's tough not to want to buy up every beautiful vintage item you see, especially since you know you're likely saving it!

And if that is what he is doing, fair enough, but I wonder....$1300 on a new handmade pair of shoes is not just about loving the past, its a status statement....[huh]

Hey ho.

 

[sheeplady]

It wasn't uncommon for the wealthy to own more than one car in the era. A family that "summers" near where I grew up has 3 cars that are left there all year and taken care of by the caretaker. In the olden days they had cars left there too. They have a private airport and they fly in from NYC, so they "need" something around here to get around, so they just leave a couple vehicles in their summer home garage.

These people are mega-wealthy however.

Vintage cars are by far much cheaper than what these people drive- even fully restored by a professional.

 

[LizzieMaine]

For better or worse the main image most people have of the twenties is either the elegant decadence of the West Egg set or the just plain decadence of the gangster/flapper image. So it makes sense for people to want to reenact that image -- if the guy's a performer, he'd fit right in with the showbiz crowd of the Era. Paul Whiteman always traveled in the highest style, after all.

The vintage crowd needs its aristocrats and economic royalists, if only for we CIO rabble-rousers to have someone to throw rocks and bottles at. Sort of the way the WW2 reenactors need someone to play the Axis.

 

[hatophile]

And if that is what he is doing, fair enough, but I wonder....$1300 on a new handmade pair of shoes is not just about loving the past, its a status statement....[huh]

Hey ho.

I wouldn't pay $1300 for a pair of shoes, but that's me. I have paid a couple of hundred for hats, though. You can get a decent vintage car for about what you'd pay for a new compact, maybe less if it is in need of repair and you can do it yourself.

 

[mummyjohn]

Even if he is expressing "consumerist ways," why would anyone denounce this as a bad thing? The free market is based on consumers; consumption is the lifeblood. Make no mistake, it's consumers that drive the economy, not producers. Even if buying fancy things - vintage or contemporary - is indulgence in status symbols, is that not fun to do? As a few other members said, that's what largely characterized the twenties (at least for society folk in the cities): spending, indulgence, decadence. And there's nothing I dream of more.

 

[William Stratford]

Even if he is expressing "consumerist ways," why would anyone denounce this as a bad thing?

How long do you have?

The free market is based on consumers; consumption is the lifeblood. Make no mistake, it's consumers that drive the economy, not producers.

You say that as if it is a good thing. Consumerism is not healthy. Rather it is part of a set of values where you discard the past and always seek the new - which is the polar opposite of what some of us seek to do. Instead we love the past and seek to preserve it. It is the difference between those who play dress up and those who immerse themselves in more than just retro-fad consumption. [huh] Consumerism reduces us to problem-solving machines in service of appetites. It has no actual comprehension of cherishing something as important in itself, rather than in its ability to sate those appetites. In short, it knows how to lust after but not how to love. That is a hideous vision of what humanity should be.

that's what largely characterized the twenties (at least for society folk in the cities): spending, indulgence, decadence.

It only characterises the twenties for precisely those "society folk in cities" and their "wannabes", and it is those values which play a key role in the loss of what many of us value from the pre-war eras (as they marked the burgeoning of modern 'values').

And there's nothing I dream of more.

A dream to you, a nightmare to others.

Edited to add:

You might find this interesting....
[video=google;9167657690296627941]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9167657690296627941[/video]

 

[Sharpsburg]

Yes, let's remember that the wretched excess of the 20's led to the wretched poverty of the 30s. We are back to the good ole days of the 1% robber baron financieer types crushing everyone else and demanding a end to evil government regulations to allow the tidal wave of capitalism to overtake the economy!

 

[LizzieMaine]

Consumerism reduces us to problem-solving machines in service of appetites. It has no actual comprehension of cherishing something as important in itself, rather than in its ability to sate those appetites. In short, it knows how to lust after but not how to love. That is a hideous vision of what humanity should be.

Hence an entire generation that sees a vintage item only in terms of its cash value -- a generation that can't wait to get Grandma's jewelry and Grandad's old car off to the auction house as soon as the old folks die. Or even before they die.

 

[William Stratford]

Hence an entire generation that sees a vintage item only in terms of its cash value -- a generation that can't wait to get Grandma's jewelry and Grandad's old car off to the auction house as soon as the old folks die. Or even before they die.

Indeed. People who see an inheritance as a fund to be liquidated rather than a trust passed on.

 

[Miss Stella]

He has some rather nice things, but.....





....isnt this just as much being an exclusivist conspicuous consumer as anyone today with several Porsches/Ferraris, Armani suits etc? Does that fact that it is vintage make it different?

[/

I thought I was on a vintage-adoring site?
I leave for a few minutes and now we are talking "exclusivist conspicuous consumer"?
(what in the world.....???? My dyed blond mane is having trouble with these big words!!)
I see him more as a conservator of the past rather than a vintage-inhaling consumer of the present.
(I used a few big words there myself!)

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I was surprised by that, too.

There's a working dance-band musician in the modern era who can afford seven vintage cars? That's the most astounding part of the story.

I'm in the same boat as you. Were I a wealthy man, I would have a fleet of classic cars, a beautiful home, and the finest clothes I could get my hands on.

Arguably.. but with taste. If I had the money, I'd live the same way - who wouldn't? Man has things he likes, and can afford them. Within reason, I say good for him.

 

[plain old dave]

Interesting thread. For Around Here (Southern Appalachia), the model is The Waltons. Multigenerational families where $1 was a **lot** of money and younger children had never seen a $50 bill. Ever. Alvin York was making $1.15 a *week* building US-127 in Fentress and Cumberland Counties in 1914 and thought there wasn't any way in the world a man could make more than that. Conspicuous consumption didn't come to the Southern Highlands til the GIs came home from WW2, and then their 'consumption' was usually a new house, electric appliances, a TV, and farm equipment. Probably a new truck, too.

 

[William Stratford]

I thought I was on a vintage-adoring site?
I leave for a few minutes and now we are talking "exclusivist conspicuous consumer"?
(what in the world.....???? My dyed blond mane is having trouble with these big words!!)
I see him more as a conservator of the past rather than a vintage-inhaling consumer of the present.
(I used a few big words there myself!)

Conservators do not spend $1300 on a new pair of handmade shoes. People who do that are using vintage as a wealth status symbol, nothing more...