Life without moderators

[dhermann1]

Whew!!!

This has been a very interesting and worthwhile discussion. I think it demonstrates the level of thoughtfulness and responsibility here at the FL.
I would assume the moderators are listening. It raises may questions. First, who does the FL belong to, really? One person started it, and remains responsible for keeping it going. But to what degree does it now belong to its members? It's a tough call. I think I'd like to see a slightly longer leash maybe on some of these topics, but things can get out of hand easily, and I think that all our moderators are sincerely not interested in pushing their own agendas. They just want to see the thing work.
I know I've had fruitful and enjoyable discussions with people I KNOW I don't see eye to eye with on some pretty fundamental issues. I'd love to see how we did with a discussion of some of those (political and other) issues, now that we've established this sense of collegiality and fellowship. (But not tonight!)
I think we've done pretty well in keeping it cool with discussions of moral issues, of which there have been plenty. There is a certain agreement that we all believe in morality, which is an important starting point.
OK. That's my 2 cents. Next?

 

[Samsa]

It raises may questions. First, who does the FL belong to, really? One person started it, and remains responsible for keeping it going. But to what degree does it now belong to its members? It's a tough call. I think I'd like to see a slightly longer leash maybe on some of these topics, but things can get out of hand easily, and I think that all our moderators are sincerely not interested in pushing their own agendas. They just want to see the thing work.
I know I've had fruitful and enjoyable discussions with people I KNOW I don't see eye to eye with on some pretty fundamental issues. I'd love to see how we did with a discussion of some of those (political and other) issues, now that we've established this sense of collegiality and fellowship. (But not tonight!)

This is a very interesting question, and one I've thought about before. To be sure, in a very real way it's MK's forum, and he's done an excellent job regulating it (on his own, and through the Bartenders). At the same time, though, the Fedora Lounge would not be what it is if it were not for the contributions of people who are not Bartenders (think Marc, Baron, and too many more to name). I'm sure that the opinions we have on these topics are carefully considered by the Bartenders, and that decisions (like banning politics, say) are not made over night, but carefully considered. That they allow such vocal dissent to stand without editing proves this. If you remember the uproar that was caused when vendors who did not advertise were forbidden from putting links in their signature line, there was a lengthy thread full of posts criticizing that decision - yet MK and the Bartenders allowed it to stand.

As to politics, I remember PMing a Bartender after the politics ban went into effect to thank him for banning that topic, and he indicated that the Bartenders received a flood of PMs thanking them for doing what they did. That particular decision I know was a hard one, and they actually considered simply removing the Observation bar. That goes to show that lots of our members really disliked politics existing as a topic.

I think that Scotrace said it best in the thread that banned politics:

The Fedora Lounge attracts such a fascinating mix of quirky, interesting people of a huge variety of interests. Most of them probably find no outlet for this side of themselves in real life and we are a valuable outlet for them. We feel a strong responsibility to protect and nurture that. We also feel a strong responsibility to keep this joint on track and within the oft-stated parameters of strictly family-oriented content. Folks, there are a lot of children reading these boards.

 

[MK]

.

Some of my freinds recently showed me 4chan. It's a forum with little to no moderation. I now see the gift that they are. So, here's just a salute to the Bartenders.:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

Thank you Phil for sharing your appreciation for the staff. Your words of praise are greatly valued.

This was a thread thanking the bartenders for their service. It has been hijacked and turned into a rant and a what-is-your-pet-peeve-with-this-place thread.

That is unfortunate. The bartenders serve to keep the peace. We are very lucky to have moderators that are mature and level-headed as we do. They read threads that they have no interest in. They put fires they didn't start and many times they hold their tongues on issues in an effort to be impartial (notice none of them have responded to this thread). For all that they recieve far more flak than thanks.

When those rare moments of praise do come, it sure would be nice if it didn't turn into a backhanded compliment.

There is a time and a place.

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

Perhaps we should learn from our moderators.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

No, now that I think of it, I'd just ban them, just like that! That would be fun, too. So really, I think you 'd hate my forum that I don't have.

I think kicking out members who generally have something worthwhile to contribute and are maturely voicing their opinions is a lot scarier than the occasional stepping on toes that goes on around here.

There is a time and a place.

This thread can be broken up into two. Why doesn't some one do that? Keep the moderator love on one thread and then add a "The good side of life without moderators" in another?

No?

 

[Nashoba]

I've been watching this thread over the last couple of days and I have to say, I agree with MK on this one.
There are always going to be subjects that each of us are passionate about. I like that we have the Observation Lounge where we can discuss a multitude of subjects. There are always going to be things that make us angry, happy, or any other multitude of emotions. This is what makes this group such a wonderful 'community' and why I love it so much. We all share a common interest that unites us here despite our diversity in background, opinions, and geography.
The Bartenders have a difficult job. I have found them all to be a wealth of knowledge, kind hearted, and willing to help whenever and wherever they can. I for one am grateful that they are here and that they do the job that they do. They devote more time and energy around here than I think many of us realize. I personally want to offer my thanks to what is often a very thankless job.

 

[MrPumpernickel]

This was a thread thanking the bartenders for their service. It has been hijacked and turned into a rant and a what-is-your-pet-peeve-with-this-place thread.

I don't believe that anyone wishes to devalue the work that the moderators do, whatever praise they deserve they should have.

That doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong about discussing the pros and cons with how things are being done though. One doesn't taint the other, and no moderator has been pointed at with mean fingers.

I guess I can be held responsible for starting this whole discussion though. I did so because just praising something without challenge can easily turn into a "Support our troops" thing where anyone who disagrees automatically wishes that all troops die (not saying that that exact thing happens here, but I've seen it happen elsewhere). Praising things, or only speaking negatively of things, polarizes the forum population. If there are then rules that are somewhat followed by means of double standards there is a risk of a) people leaving the forum because they don't enjoy that kind of thing or b) it leads up until an eventual outburst of bottled up emotions and opinions which can lead to quite a few hurt emotions and egos. Either or is needless to say an unwanted situation.

It's not a I'm right and you're wrong (or vice versa) situation, it's just healthy to discuss things in a calm and rational manner after all. That's where I stand at least.

 

[Story]

Praising things, or only speaking negatively of things, polarizes the forum population..

Sanctimonious horse hockey. If you felt so strongly, you could have started a different thread - as it stands, you're just p*ssing on people and telling them it's sunshine.

*

To put this thread back on topic, the Moderators around here do a damn fine job of keeping the peace.

 

[MrPumpernickel]

Excuse me? I'm pissing on people? I've taken (at least I think I've taken) quite some care in trying not to point any fingers to anyone, but rather speak of the forum in general. I also pointed out how the moderators do deserve praise, yet I'm still pissing on people?

I've seen exactly what I speak of happen to other forums though, so regardless if you think it's "sanctimonious horse hockey" it spawns from experience. Regardless it doesn't make it any less of a reality.

Though, "sanctimonious" gave me a good chuckle at least, since I don't know what else could be farther from the truth. Religion has nothing to do with this.

I think I'll take a break from this place, seems like the best for all parties considered if I indeed am the one who instigates these things.

 

[Tango Yankee]

I don't believe that anyone wishes to devalue the work that the moderators do, whatever praise they deserve they should have.

That doesn't mean there's anything inherently wrong about discussing the pros and cons with how things are being done though. One doesn't taint the other, and no moderator has been pointed at with mean fingers.

Actually, one does taint the other. Any good leader will tell you that you do not give praise followed by "but..." as that negates the praise. And frankly, there's not a thing wrong with just saying "Good job!"

On the other hand, it is good practice to follow up a correction with praise.

I did so because just praising something without challenge can easily turn into a "Support our troops" thing

This thread wasn't about policies, it was, as MK pointed out, just about thanking and praising the moderators. The mods are individuals who work hard in the background to keep this a nice place to visit. Your approach is akin to having someone come up to you and say "Nice outfit... but I don't quite like the shade of color in the shirt, and the hat should have a wider brim..." You get the picture.

So, to the Moderators: Thanks for doing a great job! (No if, ands, or buts about it! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap )

Cheers,
Tom

PS Mr. Pumpernickel, no need to go away. If you want to have a discussion on the pros and cons on how things are done, start a new thread! It's obvious that it would be a lively topic.

 

[KittyT]

I guess I can be held responsible for starting this whole discussion though.

Maybe you are, but you certainly aren't the only person who considered it. Your post merely gave the rest of us who agree the courage to step in to do it.

 

[KittyT]

My first rule in my fictional forum is that we all support our troops because we know that without them, we'd have no one protecting our freedom of speech. But that's just me, and my forum I don't have.

I would also know that to say supporting our troops is merely political would devalue those people in my forum I will never start who are actually in the military.

I actually find this post completely unacceptable. It is a prime example of the original point I was trying to make that certain points are valued here and others are considered inflammatory. You seem to be allowed to state this viewpoint with no moderation, yet I am not allowed to state my opposing viewpoint, because it WILL get deleted. GOOD JOB! Thank you for providing me with the most absolutely perfect example I could have conceived of to demonstrate my point!

Why hasn't this post been deleted? It IS political and it's even more upsetting that a dissenting opinion cannot be expressed.

 

[Paisley]

I, for one, am happy with how the Fedora Lounge is run. I'd rather see the bartenders err on the side of caution: it may limit some discussion, but it also maintains the lounge's high standards of decorum. I'm also glad it's a family friendly site because I often visit when I'm at work. I'm not going to run the risk of being reported for accessing a site with sexual content, regardless of how innocuous it may seem to others.

If I weren't happy with how the site were run, I might make a suggestion via PM to a bartender or MK. If I were still unhappy, I'd stop coming here. Isn't that what people do when they are unhappy at a place where they don't have to be?

 

[pigeon toe]

There have been things that people have said that have really bothered me because they have been really sexist, but because those opinions are "traditional" and "conservative" (therefore family-friendly, perhaps?) no moderator bats an eye. However, I feel like when stating my opposing opinion I have to be sure to respond in a really polite manner because my opinions aren't traditional, and I feel that I may be looked down upon for them. I just think it's unfair that some people have to choose their words carefully and others can just say whatever they want, as long as that 'whatever' falls in line with a certain belief system. Not all of us adhere to a traditional set of beliefs.

Personally, I don't see too much wrong with the "support the troops" posts. To me, it's not the same as "support the war". I have a close friend in the Marines and he has sacrificed a lot for our country. But to me, the war and the people that fight in it, are two separate issues.

 

[Miss_Bella_Hell]

Good idea, I suggest everyone who ever has a minor disagreement with the powers that be on a webiste should just quit! In fact, since I disagree with tax law in the USA I think I'll move to Bolivia.

Ok, everyone is right, this thread is dumb. Someone delete it. I'm going back to the Powder Room where I belong.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

My first rule in my fictional forum is that we all support our troops because we know that without them, we'd have no one protecting our freedom of speech. But that's just me, and my forum I don't have.

I would also know that to say supporting our troops is merely political would devalue those people in my forum I will never start who are actually in the military.

Anyway, no forum starting for me.

Being a vet,myself...I would appreciate your fictional forum! Were we could honor and support our troops wherever they are at. Some do give all. We could,maybe,also praise the good ole USA at times!...or even our leaders,no matter who they are! All ...without fear of "attack" from within. You know...something like it used to be....in the good old Golden days. A pride of being in this together...rather than needing to hysterically debate every issue at the mere mention of honoring...praising ..or patriotism(?) to what we surely hold dear.
But...it is like that here on the FL....isn't it??
HD

 

[dhermann1]

I'm a vet too, but let's keep this discussion from veering into a third topic. I support out moderators, even when I don't agree with their decisions (actually, I never have, but just hypothetically). Let's keep the troops and patriotism (which we're all for, but each in our own way) out of this thread! It's not necessary or relevant!

 

[panamag8or]

I was really hoping to avoid this thread, but I might as well chime in.

I visit a "free for all" forum daily. It has moderators, but they mostly just remove posts that "burn" them, and while it has it's place, and is good for some laughs, I come here to be with mature adults. While this is like a nice martini/cigar lounge, the other is like a frat party.

I'm glad politics is banned here, as well as overt obscenity, because that makes this a classy place to visit. If someone wants to talk about politics, they can go to a political forum... same with animal rights, gun control, etc.

This is a forum for vintage interests, and the mods do a good job of keeping that focus. Yes, they may be a bit proactive in their moderation, but they are doing it for the greater good.

The number of people that find the moderation to be a affront to free speech are far fewer than the multitude that will leave if the FL adopts an "anything goes" mentality, just to appease those few.

That's all I have to say about that.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I was really hoping to avoid this thread, but I might as well chime in.

I visit a "free for all" forum daily. It has moderators, but they mostly just remove posts that "burn" them, and while it has it's place, and is good for some laughs, I come here to be with mature adults. While this is like a nice martini/cigar lounge, the other is like a frat party.

I'm glad politics is banned here, as well as overt obscenity, because that makes this a classy place to visit. If someone wants to talk about politics, they can go to a political forum... same with animal rights, gun control, etc.

This is a forum for vintage interests, and the mods do a good job of keeping that focus. Yes, they may be a bit proactive in their moderation, but they are doing it for the greater good.

The number of people that find the moderation to be a affront to free speech are far fewer than the multitude that will leave if the FL adopts an "anything goes" mentality, just to appease those few.

That's all I have to say about that.

IMO..Good post,Panamag8..! It's evident as to why moderation is needed these days...just be reading this thread....
HD

 

[J.S.Udontknowme]

IMO..Good post,Panamag8..! It's evident as to why moderation is needed these days...just be reading this thread....
HD

Just what I was thinking.