Levis 501 1966 Dd Selvedge

[Graemsay]

I've heard that older jeans are actually more abrasion resistant than newer pairs. I'm not sure why this is, but it could be down to washing as Papa M suggested.

I own two pairs of dry denim jeans. The aforementioned Levis and a pair of Nudie jeans, similar to GriffDeLaGriff's, but without the washing accident and probably a lighter grade of denim. Both are around a year old.

The Levis have been washed a couple of times, and are still quite stiff. They're generally developing the faded lines along the creases that I think the denim fanatics like.

The Nudies are washed more regularly. They've softened up and faded a lot. Not so much evidence of marking as the Levis, and I think that they'll end up with less character.

I'm not a hardcore denimista, so it's really a bit of an experiment to see how they turn out.

In terms of shrinkage, the Levis lost about 2" off the waist (they were a bit big), and a bit less off the length. The Nudies remained about the same waist size (or I stretched them out), and lost a couple of inches over several washes. They were very long initially, and there's a bit of wear just above my ankle where I used to turn them up.

I'm inclined to treat them as work wear, and not get too precious about them.

Oh, I've also got a Timothy Everest suit from some years back that's made out of denim. I really should wear that an awful lot more...

 

[katanadave]

I've been wearing the 501 selvedge levis for nearly 40yrs, to be sure of your fit it is best if you can try them on as actual size and the tag size can vary, however if you wash with hot water expect shrinkage in the waste of 1 to 2 inches and about 2-3 in the leg, don't alter the hem untill you have washed them at least 6 times as further slight shrinkage in length can occur.
A lot is posted about washing and the fading of these jeans, if you want the type of fading that you see from archive pictures of the 60s and 70s wash them in hot water with ordinary washing powder without additives, remember 40/50 years ago there was no biological powders with colourfast additives.
On the question of are they worth the extra money i believe they are however i shop around and wait till they are on offer and then buy several pairs.

 

[trapp]

Griff, the nudies look good. The only 'harm' they seem to have taken from not turning them inside out is the honeycombs (natural wear that develop behind the knees) look a little off. No big deal. The front looks great and it's evident that you achieved everything from natural wear. Trust me, they don't look like pre-distressed 80's acid wash jeans at all. Keep wearing these.

 

[trapp]

Dav, I don't know specifically about the 1966 dd selvage. I own the LVC 1966 501. These jeans have very large and very square rear pockets, a bit different than the standard proportions you see on most Levi's models. If you're buying the '66 dd selvage online and haven't seen them in person, double-check the rear pockets and make sure you like the style. I love the LVC 66 cut. But just know the rear pockets hang a bit lower down the leg and offer a different look, esp. if you're wearing short jackets.

If your jeans are raw then they will shrink substantially during the first wash, regardless of the temperature (don't buy true to size and expect them not to shrink by washing them cold--you won't be happy).

It's true they'll shrink a bit less if you give them a cold wash by hand in the tub. Generally, hotter temperatures plus agitation plus machine dry will give you the greatest shrink. Cold water, less agitation (hand washing), and hang drying will give less shrink.

 

[Dav]

Thanks for the info gents, since starting this thread I've learnt a lot about selvedge denim and must admit I've become rather hooked, especially on those Iron Heart jeans.

 

[ButteMT61]

Thanks for the info gents, since starting this thread I've learnt a lot about selvedge denim and must admit I've become rather hooked, especially on those Iron Heart jeans.

Me too. Not easy though. I've bought ~10 pairs of various makes/models this year and just beginning to understand it. They are ALL different. And, wash in cold water, inside out. If possible, let them line dry outside. That's working well. No fabric softeners either. I'm at the point where I might have to graduate to the $200+ jeans now. Some of the just under $200 seem good, but the cheaper ones suck. I had one pair of 501's going great - dry wash. I ripped the leg badly while working on the chicken coop. I was so p*ssed I almost gave up on selvedge. Do read what you can online. And always get actual measurements. Always.

 

[Aerojoe]

Ah, the Hell's Angels method, as described by Hunter S. Thompson...

“Every Angel recruit comes to his initiation wearing a new pair of Levis and a matching jacket with the sleeves cut off and a spotless emblem on the back. The ceremony varies from one chapter to another but the main feature is always the defiling of the initiate’s new uniform. A bucket of dung and urine will be collected during the meeting, then poured on the newcomer’s head in a solemn baptismal. Or he will take off his clothes and stand naked while the bucket of slop is poured over them and the others stomp it in.

These are his ‘original’, to be worn every day until they rot. The Levis are dipped in oil, then hung out to dry in the sun – or under the motorcycle at night to absorb the crankcase drippings.

:eeek: and they never ever wash their pants?

When they become too ragged to be functional, they are worn over other newer Levis.”

I'm not buying it

I can't imagine one of these guys with a two pairs of jeans on.

 

[2jakes]

I still reckon that it doesn't do too much harm to wash denim. In fact there is a small school of thought that suggests that washing is what tightens the thread and actually strengthens the cloth.[/QUOTE]

If you live in an area where the water has high levels of calcium & magnesium ,
it will make a difference. Here at home, we call it "hard water".
Washing a pair of denims & hung outside to dry will create quite a nice vintage look .

 

[trapp]

It doesn't do any harm to wash denim. It doesn't do any harm to not wash denim for several months either. When people are choosing not to wash denim it's (usually) NOT for fear of harming the fabric. They just want higher contrast fades.

As a general rule (I'm trying to be very general to avoid starting any denim debates over individual preferences and lother like minutia) the less you wash and the more you wear the higher contrast the eventual fading. That doesn't mean BETTER fading, 'cause that is highly individual and subjective. So is the preferred way to achieve nice fading. Some wash once a month every month and get great results. Some wait for six or nine months, wash, then start washing hard and often. Some never wash. Some don't worry about it and wash when and however they feel like it. You can be a control freak or just lay back and wear them, whatever works for you. Most people agree that at some point you need to wash not only because the jeans start to reek if you don't, but because it's true that washing starts to sort of temper the cotton fibers, making them stronger and, more importantly, more comfortable. To be honest, though, strength is rarely an issue with high quality denim because good denim generally has a nice tight weave. Likewise, washing is rarely the big issue some make of it because the indigo in good denim is stable and holds pretty fast. Any denim is going to tear if you snag it on chicken wire

From my experience, the $150 -$200 price range of denim is kind of no-man's land. You're spending significant money but not getting a whole lot back. You just need to bite the bullet and go all in. Most people hem and haw, grab a pair of APC's for sub-$200, and then realize quite soon that they might as well go whole hog and get something nice. You need to bump up a bit to start finding denim that makes you really see why people are willing to spend $275-$375 (prices are going up).

For a first nice raw jean, my advice for most guys on this board would be either the Iron Heart 634s (their flagship 21 oz straight leg jean) or one of LVC's 501 models. They couldn't be more different. The Iron Heart will offer an amazing, beautiful, heavy denim that is sanforized (minimal shrinkage and easier to size) with a conservative slim-straight cut that's flattering on most guys and easy to wear. It has a modern but fairly conservative cut and a mid-rise. The LVC will offer more traditional 30's - 60's high rises, cone denim, a host of different 501 years to choose from depending on your body shape and clothing style, a bit of American pride. The 1947 cut is usually a safe bet. With LVC you probably want to get unsanforized (shrink to fit). This scares some people as it can be a touch trickier to size but it's not that hard and once you get the ball rolling it's great.

There are now nine-million other good options, from Japanese repros (a la IH) to smaller american "handmade by one man" (Roy jeans, who is sort of the John Chapman of denim). But the 634s and LVC 501 '47 come to mind as great starting jeans.

IH is expensive, but the nice thing about IH is that you get instant satisfaction. They are soft, dark, hardy, rich, and tough. You don't have to know a thing about denim to go, holy shit, this is a sweet pair of jeans. They are super comfortable yet have a kind of heavy, substantial look, which will complement everybody's fqhh aero jackets

LVC and other models are equally great, but you sometimes have to be more patient to see or understand what's special about them. To some, that itself is special.

 

[injunjack]

after Trapps praise, I cannot say more...

Here are my IH 634S's after about 1½ years normal use in ratation with other pairs. (this includes several washes, approx after every 3 weeks wear, I wear 1 pair a week, and the air it properly, after 3rd week they get usually washed )

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

They look sweet!

I just washed my 634s today after wearing them for almost a year. I just had to wash them, not that they smelled alot, but I just couldnt stand that special smell anymore, it creeped up on me during the day and I just felt unfresh Now they smell nice

 

[Baron Kurtz]

A few things I never understood:

1) Why, oh why, can people not smell their unwashed jeans? Rockabilly-type gigs are infused with the aroma of months (years in some cases) unwashed denim. The horrid, sickly sweet stench of ass. Homeless people don't smell because their bodies are unwashed - they smell largely because their clothes are unwashed. I just don't get it. You've spent hundreds of dollars for a pair of jeans, probably because you like the appearance they give you, and you go out of your way to insert the stench … Is it just young men's noses that are faulty?

2) What do people mean by "natural" vs "un-natural" fade? The washing process was, and is, integral to the fade development. Our washing machines are much gentler than older washing practices. I can understand people wanting to maintain the indigo colour, but if you're on the hunt for fade generation, washing is a very important part of that.

 

[ButteMT61]

I can't abide by the ~months or a year without a washing. Not on God's green earth. My nose is ultra-senstive to odors and that would never work.
I'm not really sure I even buy into the whole practice as being better. Was there a time when guys didn't wash their pants? Even if you can get better results, I'm just gonna have to miss out lol

 

[too much coffee]

I'll just stick with my Wrangler 13MWZ jeans, washed just about after each daily wearing. Can't afford any other brands/styles.

 

[trapp]

The nice thing is you don't have to buy into anything. If you spend good $$ on jeans you should wear 'em and wash 'em any way you want. Wash 'til the cows come home! The IH's just posted above are a testament to how great they can turn out with frequent washing (every three weeks or so in that case, it sounds like). If you start with a good peice of raw denim--a clean slate--you can do what you want with it and, as long as you're wearing them, the jeans will look and feel fine.

That said, I don't bag on someone who wants to wash their jeans as little as possible either. That "sickly sweet smell of ass" (nice alliteration) might have been jeans...or they might have been somebody's ass. There are plenty of ways to avoid both bad smells in jeans and lots of washing (cold soaks, hanging them up outside once in a while, etc). Homeless people often smell because they have urinated in their pants. Nobody's advocating that for your denim. (Well, if you dig around enough online, somebody might be)

Baron, I'm a little confused by your natural vs. unnatural fade question. When people talk about fading, they aren't talking just about the overall general fade of the garment from dark indigo to light blue, they are talking about all the wear lines that develop at the points of highest friction. These points vary from person to person, depending on everything from the fit of their jeans to the way they live and move, but it's common for them to appear as fades where the lap creases (whiskers), behind the knees (honeycombs), at the leg openings (roping), along the outseams (railroad tracks), and elsewhere.

As you say, washing raw denim doesn't create unnatural fades. The process of wearing, washing, wearing, etc. is exactly what brings about authentic wear and natural fading--whether you wash by hand or by machine. Some people choose to wash less often because it creates a higher contrast between the areas of the garment that see a lot of friction vs. those that see less, so the blues are darker and the whites lighter. Washing, however frequently it's done, doesn't create unnatural fading, it just effects more or less the character of the fading. There is no better or worse about it, just individual preferences.

"Unnatural fading" has more to do with pre-distressed jeans. These jeans have been processed (using any number of methods--washing with stones, chemical, sandpapered, etc) to simulate marks of wear without the jeans ever being worn. This is most often done at the factory, and then the 'falsely faded' jeans are presented to a buyer (often with a snappy name like 'the roadhouse jean' or something.) These are not raw jeans. They are pre-distressed. Part of the distressing invariably involves some washing in the factory. This can be confusing to some because the different pre-distressed versions are often called 'washes'. For example, the Levi's 501 "Roadhouse wash" or the "summer of '69 wash" or the "purple rose of cairo wash" or "Wash 1394352663" (I'm making these names up)

It's the same general concept as LVC taking an Aero fqhh jacket and distressing the hell out of it before selling it. To many on this forum, that processed jacket seems unattractive and inauthentic and they can instantly recongnize the fact that a human body did not create that effect on the jacket. It's not a well-worn jacket; it's a design team's idea of a well-worn jacket. It's trying to pass as a well-worn jacket.

Same goes for denim. The nicks, creases, and fading of the jeans don't match the body of the person wearing them...because they weren't made by that body.

Back in the day, people were indeed washing their jeans, some frequently, some not. But the jeans they were washing started as a stiff, uniform piece of indigo-dyed 100% cotton denim and then developed their shape and appearance by the way they were lived and worked in. They didn't start as the "The Roadhouse Wash".

 

[too much coffee]

"The horrid, sickly sweet stench of ass..."

Baron...I'm still rolling on the floor in an uncontrollable fit of laughter!

Regards,
coffee

 

[cdnwatchguy]

I lurk a lot here but rarely post. This thread hit on one of my interests. Raw and or selvedge denim.
I am in fact witting here in a pair of Naked and Famous Red Core jeans that I recently purchased. As they fade they will take on a reddish hue.

Hopefully it is ok to post a link to another site. This site will give a ton of information on denim.
http://www.rawrdenim.com/

 

[Grayland]

I have about 10 pairs of selvedge denim. From what I understand, that may too many as most denimheads only have a few pairs so that they can actually wear them a lot and develop character. When I was younger and knew nothing about selvedge, I washed them after each wear (or, at least, my Mom did), and I needed to as I got them pretty damn dirty, but now I rotate through the 10 pairs quite a bit and only wash them every few months as needed. It isn't like I'm working on a chain gang and they never smell bad. In addition, I find that jeans that are laundered often end up shrinking hem-wise. That is more due to the dryer than the washer, but I find drying jeans on the clothesline results in some pretty wrinkly jeans. I usually wear wool dress pants at work and I only dry clean those about twice a year.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Before I go any further, I will confirm that I am a big fan of selvedge denim, and own many, too many, pairs by various high-end makers. I'm not trying to "do-down" the buying of expensive jeans.

Baron, I'm a little confused by your natural vs. unnatural fade question.

It's OK, you answered it. I had thought there was a suggestion above that washing would produce "un-natural" results, which I was wrong about.

"The horrid, sickly sweet stench of ass..."

Baron...I'm still rolling on the floor in an uncontrollable fit of laughter!

Regards,
coffee

I do my best to please. I've been working on that particular alliteration for a while, now.

 

[injunjack]

re washed every 3 weeks...

I wear 1 week, air them properly. second week I use another pair as well on third, I take third pair. Then it's back to the first pair. 3 times of that and then wash. If they doesn't get filthy on other activities.

If I ever smell my jeans I'd wash them immediatelly