Levels of fedora formality?

[avedwards]

I have little to add here that has not already been said, as the comments so far all have merit.

On the cultural norms issue, brim and hatband width is variable, albeit an imprecise one, depending on which culture relative to another. Compared to the UK and even the US, Australia is a relatively casual culture, so only the snootiest Aussie would regard a thin band or 3-inch brim as too casual for a suit and tie.

In fact, the increasing popularity of Australian outback styles with skinny bands has probably shifted Americans' standards to a narrower band and wider brim as being entirely acceptable for all but the most dressy, dark suits.

Yet, the wider, 1- to 2-inch band and slimmer, 2- to 2 1/2-inch brim are still safer bets for most suit-wearing men in the US. However, when the band gets much wider than two inches, or the brim much less than two, it goes back to more casual, in accordance with the Rule of Extremes.

Who makes the rules? Them. They make the rules. The real question is, how can I become one of them?

I completely agree. And that's why as a Brit I would never wear a thin ribbon with a suit, or indeed any ribbon less than 1". That's not to say that British people cannot wear thin ribbon hats, just that I like to stick to the more historically correct wider ribbons which to me look "right".

 

[kaosharper1]

I appreciate everyone weighing in.

Is there a consensus that a highly contrasting hat ribbon/brim ribbon makes for a more sporty, less formal hat?

Dark hat, light band is sporty. Light hat with dark band is more formal. At least, that's the way it looks to me.

I have an Art Fawcett Hoosier that is a dark sable brown with a khaki colored band and that definitely looks sporty. On the other hand my Jazzman in powder blue (a light blue/grey) and a navy band looks formal.

 

[Mickey D]

Great discussion. Very informative to us novices. :eusa_clap

 

[jimmy the lid]

I think these sorts of hard and fast rules are not useful and do not hold.

There's nothing I have ever seen in old photos (aside from B&W ones)
and text or modern guides to suggest that brown hats are in any way
more or less formal than black or gray. Some of my finest hats-
Cavanagh and Borsalino for example- are brown. It's the style and
quality of the hat, not the color (unless we're talking about extreme colors).

As for thin ribbons, why do you suppose the Stetson 100 invariably has
a thin ribbon? That is not a casual hat. Again, it's not just the rule, but
the context here.

My thoughts exactly.


Cheers,
JtL

 

[Dinerman]

I completely agree. And that's why as a Brit I would never wear a thin ribbon with a suit, or indeed any ribbon less than 1". That's not to say that British people cannot wear thin ribbon hats, just that I like to stick to the more historically correct wider ribbons which to me look "right".

I had a 1930s english made and sold trilby- very fine fur felt- raw edge brim- creamy light tan sweatband- with an original 1/2" ribbon. Pretty thin. And then a '60s brown Herbert Johnson with a 3/4" band. They weren't unheard of.

 

[jimmy the lid]

IMO yes, contrasting hats/ribbons are more casual

There is absolutely nothing inherently casual about a contrasting ribbon...[huh] Conversely, there is absolutely nothing inherently formal about a non-contrasting ribbon. I think this thread is becoming utterly confusing...


Cheers,
JtL

 

[avedwards]

I had a 1930s english made and sold trilby- very fine fur felt- raw edge brim- creamy light tan sweatband- with an original 1/2" ribbon. Pretty thin. And then a '60s brown Herbert Johnson with a 3/4" band. They weren't unheard of.

I'm not disagreeing that they weren't unheard of, but I do think that they were never as common in England as in the US. I'd at least have thought that OR style hats were uncommon here.

 

[avedwards]

There is absolutely nothing inherently casual about a contrasting ribbon...[huh] Conversely, there is absolutely nothing inherently formal about a non-contrasting ribbon. I think this thread is becoming utterly confusing...


Cheers,
JtL

I was referring to something like a black hat with a grey ribbon, which I hope we can agree is not as formal as a black hat with a black ribbon.

 

[kaosharper1]

Simple Rules

I wonder if someone could provide a visual continuum of formality? Something like:

LESS -- Fedora<Homburg<Top Hat -- MORE

but specifically for fedoras?

Based on his initial post, NukeMeSlowly is looking for some simple rules to start with, so I think giving some basics would be better than a lot of qualifications. Clearly, we all have our own perceptions of what's formal or not formal. Moving to SoCal where "Business Casual" means wearing a shirt with buttons has shown me that. But in this case we would be more helpful to NukeMeSlowly if we just gave him some simple rules to start with. He can come up with his own variations as his personal hat style develops, as we all did.

 

[avedwards]

Based on his initial post, NukeMeSlowly is looking for some simple rules to start with, so I think giving some basics would be better than a lot of qualifications. Clearly, we all have our own perceptions of what's formal or not formal. Moving to SoCal where "Business Casual" means wearing a shirt with buttons has shown me that. But in this case we would be more helpful to NukeMeSlowly if we just gave him some simple rules to start with. He can come up with his own variations as his personal hat style develops, as we all did.

My first post on this thread did give some very basic details which are of course subjective, but as NB13 said they will avoid anyone making a major faux pas. I gave the basics of colour, band width and edge treatment as I would personally rate them. The logic being that the more a hat resembles a formalwear hat (both in colour and style) the more formal it is.

 

[Joshbru3]

Ive always been told that the levels of formality are:
1. Tophat
2. Bowler
3. Homburg
4. Fedora (Long or semi-short brim)
5. Stingy brim fedora
6. Porkpie, trilby, etc.

The color of the hat should be based on the attired that your wearing at the time, but I dont believe that a black hat is any more formal than a grey or brown one. If the brim is firm such as a homburg or tophat, they are obviously more formal than a snap brim on a fedora. Thats what I think at least, but could most definately be wrong.

 

[Mulceber]

Ive always been told that the levels of formality are:
1. Tophat
2. Bowler
3. Homburg
4. Fedora (Long or semi-short brim)
5. Stingy brim fedora
6. Porkpie, trilby, etc.

The color of the hat should be based on the attired that your wearing at the time, but I dont believe that a black hat is any more formal than a grey or brown one. If the brim is firm such as a homburg or tophat, they are obviously more formal than a snap brim on a fedora. Thats what I think at least, but could most definately be wrong.

I generally with your 1-6 classification system, although I'd add thin-ribboned fedoras to number 5. -M

 

[metropd]

Look at formalwear - black top hats and homburgs are worn. With morning dress the only other acceptable hat colour is grey.

This statement is false. Black is the standard color for top hats with morning dress, and grey being an optional alternative, mostly worn as rentals at Royal Ascot .

 

[avedwards]

This statement is false. Black is the standard color for top hats with morning dress, and grey being an optional alternative, mostly worn as rentals at Royal Ascot .

That is what I was trying to say, perhaps a bit clumsily worded. And following that logic one could assume that black is a more formal colour than brown since black top hats are standard for morning dress and white tie. Therefore, my assumption was that when it comes to fedoras black is more formal than brown, followed by grey; and my reason for this assumption was based on black being standard for morning dress but grey being an alternative.

 

[avedwards]

Ive always been told that the levels of formality are:
1. Tophat
2. Bowler
3. Homburg
4. Fedora (Long or semi-short brim)
5. Stingy brim fedora
6. Porkpie, trilby, etc.

The color of the hat should be based on the attired that your wearing at the time, but I dont believe that a black hat is any more formal than a grey or brown one. If the brim is firm such as a homburg or tophat, they are obviously more formal than a snap brim on a fedora. Thats what I think at least, but could most definately be wrong.

I agree with your list, except for number two. Bowlers rank below homburgs not above them. The reason being that a homburg is worn with semi-formal clothing (black tie) but a bowler only with informal clothing (lounge suit).

 

[metropd]

That is what I was trying to say, perhaps a bit clumsily worded. And following that logic one could assume that black is a more formal colour than brown since black top hats are standard for morning dress and white tie. Therefore, my assumption was that when it comes to fedoras black is more formal than brown, followed by grey; and my reason for this assumption was based on black being standard for morning dress but grey being an alternative.

I agree with this.

 

[mayserwegener]

I agree with your list, except for number two. Bowlers rank below homburgs not above them. The reason being that a homburg is worn with semi-formal clothing (black tie) but a bowler only with informal clothing (lounge suit).

Homburgs are not exclusively black tie. Traditionally I would say business formal. With side dents they can be taken down a notch.

 

[avedwards]

Homburgs are not exclusively black tie. Traditionally I would say business formal. With side dents they can be taken down a notch.

I know, but a homburg can be worn with black tie whereas a bowler cannot. Therefore the homburg is more formal than the bowler, since the bowler is restricted to informal clothing (by which I mean a lounge suit) and a homburg can work for both informal and semi-formal clothing.

 

[mayserwegener]

I know, but a homburg can be worn with black tie whereas a bowler cannot. Therefore the homburg is more formal than the bowler, since the bowler is restricted to informal clothing (by which I mean a lounge suit) and a homburg can work for both informal and semi-formal clothing.

I agree with the formality ranking. I was keying on your statement "semi-formal clothing (black tie)". Thanks for the clarification.

 

[CRH]

....

Who makes the rules? Them. They make the rules. The real question is, how can I become one of them?

Trust your intuitional sense of style and wear whatever looks good to you. Now you are setting the rules.

If you feel self conscious then you need to re-evaluate your style sense.