truffaux
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One other thought is how are you measuring your hats?
I think they are mostly made true to size - it's hard to tell what has happened to a hat over a 70 year timeframe - it is the movement after the event that interests me. It is a puzzle I have been unravelling for 20 years - all this helpsI think shrinkage or size variation is a really useful conversation to have.
I have a mid- to late-60s Stetson 25 that is labeled size 7 but measures 21.5 inches circumference - that’s 6 7/8. I wear it a lot - it’s a favorite work hat- but it is literally the smallest size 7 that I own. I always thought the hat shrank, but now you have me wondering if it was just mislabeled or perhaps at that time period the 25s were produced a bit on the smaller side?
I’m currently waiting for an early 60s Stetson Sovereign. It is labeled 6 7/8 and if it’s true to size, then it should fit me tight like my Stetson 25. I would not have even gambled on the Sovereign except the sweat band is in immaculate condition (as is the rest of the hat with one small moth nick) and the hat only cost 65$. At that price, I didn’t even stop to ask the seller to provide measurements - I just took the gamble.
But now I am anxious to see if this gorgeous hat is going to fit. If it is any smaller than 21.5 inches (for whatever reason), it will not fit.
So I admit that I also thought vintage sweatbands shrink over time, mostly because so many vintage hats I’ve purchased are smaller than they should be. But it makes a lot more sense if they were just not made true to size to begin with.
I deal with this an awful lot in my everyday life as a hatmaker and no one really talks about it.
Every hat will end up shrinking in the end - so when you order one, makes sure it has a little extra room to allow for this, insert a foam spacer and then all will be well.
Panama hats shrink pretty quickly - I notice it after two weeks. Often as they cure on the shelves, they will adjust be 1-3cm depending on the weave. Fresh hats are less predictable.
Felts with leather bands can take years, but it is hastened by leaving your hat in the sun or heating (parcel shelf, air conditioning, heaters etc). The felt shrinks a bit, but it is the stupid leather bands that cause all the trouble.
I have seen hats where the leather band has become completely flat with the brim - so a 60cm became a 45cm!!!!!
I have owned hundreds of vintage hats and very few that are true to size.
Have a look here and you will get the idea :
https://www.truffaux.com/blogs/panama-hat-advice/why-do-panama-hats-shrink
Good luck
Oska
You live close to me (90 minutes away), and l want to visit your shop, but l would like to ask some questions first.
1). I understand wool/felt hats shrink because they get stretched over the hat block but shrink back to their original size over time. So....when l buy an Akubra, should l buy one size too big? How long does it take to shrink back? I store my hats in boxes, so if l buy a bigger hat, can l dab it with water and leave it out in the sun so it shrinks faster?
2). Do you sell traditional boater hats? Do they shrink, if so, buy how much?
3). I recently got fitted for a really fine Montecristi (made by Mt Rosendo) by an expert. It was bought slightly bigger, so l sponge it with water lightly and leave it out in the sun to shrink. The problem is that it is now wavy. Do you block hats or know some local who can block my masterpiece?
https://www.ganjingworld.com/news/t...ster-craftsman/1g6mqrh5mum7at0VBkEMW9YLz15l1c
I’ve owned hundreds of vintage hats too. Several have been larger than tagged and most have been very close to true to size, and a few have been smaller than labeled. I don’t know their past so I can imagine some were worn by larger headed men who stretched them a bit and maybe that accounts for those measuring larger than sized? There is variation, but I’ve been mostly impressed that my vintage hats have been true to size (or very close). I’m fact, if the hats are from the 1940s or earlier the more confidence I have that they will fit true to size. Odd, but I find the most shrinkage problems from my more recent vintage hats.
There is, and always has been, discrepancies on sizing. New hats made by the same company or the same custom hat maker often fit differently even when made on the same block. Sometimes the differences can be significant.
Ahh, the joys and torments of modern mass produced hats!I have found the same, with one quirk. In the modern Stetson line, almost everything shrank about one size (actually much more in the case of a Whippet 'Sovereign' that really got soaked). So when I placed an order for a batch of their Premier series hats (Stratoliner, Stetsonian, etc.), I went up one cm, and the #$%^ things won't shrink, with the exception of a black Premier Strat.
Elsewhere, my modern Borsalinos didn't so much shrink as lose their shape and charm. My best efforts with stiffener and steam haven't been able to return them to their initial glory.
I have found the same, with one quirk. In the modern Stetson line, almost everything shrank about one size (actually much more in the case of a Whippet 'Sovereign' that really got soaked). So when I placed an order for a batch of their Premier series hats (Stratoliner, Stetsonian, etc.), I went up one cm, and the #$%^ things won't shrink, with the exception of a black Premier Strat.
Elsewhere, my modern Borsalinos didn't so much shrink as lose their shape and charm. My best efforts with stiffener and steam haven't been able to return them to their initial glory.
This old Knox just arrived. It’s a 100-year old hat (plus/minus) and it’s true to size. The original leather sweatband has had plenty of time to shrink if it was going to. I’d also wager that the hat did not spend its life with a band block or hat stretcher installed; although, I can’t say for certain. If it’s shrunk it’s a fraction of a size, and I don’t think it has at all. Newer sweatbands just don’t compare to what was used back in the good old days.
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A dashing derby! Very nice, Brent.