Knox Premier Homburg!

[Visigoth]

So, I sort of thought I had purchased a brown fedora (ebay photos being what they are), and today it arrived: a Knox Premier homburg, with all sorts of peculiar details. Not the least odd is that the sweatband is *not leather*. It's some kind of cloth -- I believe silk grosgrain ribbon? -- with "Ovalized Sixteenths" printed on it, as well as the Knox logo. The liner has pleats, and the gold logo has "Knox Premier" at the top. The paper tag beneath the sweatband indicates the crown depth! Never seen that before. (5 3/4".)

Any idea of the vintage? Looks vaguely thirties to me, and the felt feels like my thirties Borsalinos, but this is my first homburg, and I know nada. (I bashed it to look like Matt Deckard's mercury felt Adam.)

 

[silvershadow]

snap the brim down

If you snap the front of the brim down it will be a Fedora. A true Homburg would have a framed brim - slightly curled up at the sides and flatter at the front and back. I have a fedora that looks just like yours when I snap the brim up to let it rest when it's sitting in between wearings (and I have about fifteen hats so they're on rotation).

best wishes, Glenn.

 

[Visigoth]

Hi Glenn,

I've tried that -- it's *way* too curly, this brim, to be a fedora. Looks very weird snapped down: the bound edge at the front is then literally parallel to the crown -- points right at the floor. Could be the way I steamed it looks less homburg-like? (Still trying to figure out what you mean.)

What it looks like, in fact, is the Miller "Banker" homburg (with a flat-rolled brim, as opposed to deep rolled):

http://millerhats.com/homburg2.html

I think you're saying it should look more like the "Godfather" homburg on the same page?

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Liner way cool...

I like your hat... The Casket liner is real old school. Nice touch...:eusa_clap

 

[Visigoth]

Thanks! (I have no hair, so I tend to remove liners -- I find them uncomfortable. I of course never throw them away...)

So, here's a photo of the hat with the brim snapped down. *Definitely* too curly for a fedora. I suppose it's possible that the binding ribbon has shrunk over the years, doing this? And I might be able to iron the brim to make it into a proper fedora... but I very much doubt this was meant to be anything but a homburg.

Anyone else have homburgs from this era, who can weigh in?

 

[SHARPETOYS]

I don't know if you saw this post from John at
www.rockymountainhatcompany.com


Originally Posted by mthatter
Douglas, I'll add one more kind of curl called a kettle curl. This is a fuller curl put on the sides only. When any of these curls are put on a hat the felt is being shrunk back on itself but usually can be taken out if desired.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?p=142768#post142768

 

[Visigoth]

Meaning this is not a homburg, but a fedora with a kettle curl?

 

[tonyb]

Thanks, Sharpy.
Visigoth, does that edge binding cover the same real estate on the top and bottom of the brim? And, how much dough you got into that lid? It looks like a pretty fine old hat (no matter what it cost you), and it would pain me to see it get damaged. But, on the other hand, if you really want to fedora-ize it, well, it's been done before. My converted Homburg is an old ('30s vintage, judging from the original $5 price tag attached to the underside of the sweatband) Stetson Special that came through it fine.

The photo doesn't do the color justice. It's a rich, deep blue. And not at all faded, which is kind of remarkable, seeing how it's probably a good 70 years old.

 

[Visigoth]

It only set me back 16 bucks, and yeah: the binding is the same width on both sides (and a narrower binding than you see on most homburgs, but just the same as that Miller hat has -- and yours, I think).

I don't necessarily mind having one homburg in the mix -- that said, I don't have a black fedora (just a couple of midnight blues). I think I'd only consider the sex change if this really is a fedora with a curl, rather than an echt homburg (otherwise, yeah: it's sacrilege on a hat this nice).

I could get used to wearing this; it's a nice hat; I just tend to be a snap-down kind of guy...

 

[Visigoth]

Actually, looks more like a shackle than a kettle curl, no? (If the kettle is "on the sides only.")

 

[tonyb]

It only set me back 16 bucks, and yeah: the binding is the same width on both sides (and a narrower binding than you see on most homburgs, but just the same as that Miller hat has -- and yours, I think).

I don't necessarily mind having one homburg in the mix -- that said, I don't have a black fedora (just a couple of midnight blues). I think I'd only consider the sex change if this really is a fedora with a curl, rather than an echt homburg (otherwise, yeah: it's sacrilege on a hat this nice).

I could get used to wearing this; it's a nice hat; I just tend to be a snap-down kind of guy...

Understood. I'm generally a down-in-the-front sort myself, but then, I used to wear OR (and OR-like) lids almost exclusively, and now I wonder how I could have ever so limited myself.
There is something special about a blue hat, eh? Maybe they aren't "right" for everyday wear, but man, they sure do make a statement. And not just the dark hues, either. I still can't get enough of that very light blue old Mallory that fedoralover scored just recently.
Maybe you should save the black Homburg for graveside services. Here's hoping it rarely sees such use.
(Reminds me of what an old co-worker said on the way to our boss's funeral: "I told Jerry I would pour a bottle of whiskey on his grave. I didn't tell him I would drink it first.")

 

[feltfan]

Anyone else have homburgs from this era, who can weigh in?

I have a Cavanagh that I imagine to be from the 50s or 60s that
is made of a thin, stiff felt that is similarly blocked. Never have
been sure if it was a homburg or a fedora. I have seen ads (either print
or eBay listings) for two and three way hats and "convertible" hats.
I suspect this was a style, or an attempt to create one by hat makers,
at some point. Kind of like the mullet- a little bit party a little bit office.
I don't love the hat, but it can take some weather.

 

[Visigoth]

Haha... you couldn't really denigrate a hat more perfectly than to call it a "mullet." I like to think this is a notch classier than your average urban hillbilly haircut.

I'm actually starting to like it more and more: it doesn't have that wide brim binding that you find on a lot of homburgs, so isn't quite as ostentatious/formal.

The felt really does feel thirties to me: like my (probably mercury felted) Borsalinos.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

On left, my Drake Deluxe, and on the right is my latest Royal Deluxe Stetson. Both definitely fedoras, and both with a bunch of curl

The Royal Deluxe again, showing the line of stitching that attaches the lower side of the bound edge. It is inboard of the bound edge on top of the brim:

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

And for comparison, Stetson Royal Deluxe Homburg:

And Cavanagh Homburg:

Just to throw a Spaniard in the works, the Stetson's edge binding is wider on the underside of the brim, and the Cavanagh's is wider on the upper side.

 

[Visigoth]

John, the curl on both those fedoras is serious, but within the bounds of wearable. Mine is far more severe -- it simply can't be worn flipped down (not only does it look *very* strange, but it covers your eyes). No, there's no doubt that as it stands, it's not designed to be anything but curled up. Still dying to figure out what it is...

 

[epic610]

as a homburg aficionado...

my rule of thumb is that if you have to ask . . . then it's probably NOT a homburg.

 

[Visigoth]

Okay, interesting -- according to Levine Hats, a homburg, by definition, can't be pinched: "A homburg that has pinches is called a New Yorker."

So, this is either a curled fedora, or a New Yorker.