Knox 20 Dating

[Evan]

Hey there, I'm a newcomer to this awesome forum and could use some help. For my anniversary I got a Knox 20 hat, and Google isn't too keen on giving me much information about these hats or their age. So I was wondering if someone could assist me in this manner. I have several photos of the hat including the box and the inside of the hat itself. My apologies for the blurriness, I will fix it if necessary.
The front and top of the box.

Here are photos of the sweatband and the inside the crown.

And lastly, the sides and front of the hat itself.

Thank you very much you help is much appreciated!

 

[The Inspector]

Well back in the day Fedoras had different styles and costs. So Knox created the Knox 15 and 20 series hats. The Knox 15 cost 15 USD this it was average simple hat, but the Knox 20 series was made a bit better and more costly. I have mine as my avatar and they are wonderfull hats, but it looks like yours is a simple Knox 20, mine has more accessories. I can't really tell you a lot about them accept for the basics. But you can do your own research if you need to learn a bit more. Hope this helped!

 

[The Inspector]

Here is my box. I would rate it(on a scale of 1-100) a 82 because there is a bit of fading and quite a few dents in it. But the inside of the box is fine, no major dents, and no rips.

The hat is a different story. I would rate it a 93 because of the dirty liner it has and the rip in it as well. But other than that there is nothing wrong, no moth bites no tears or damage to the hat, and the ribbon is absolutely beautiful.

Over all the set is a 89. But its very popular and the demand for a wide brimmed fedora is quite high from what I have witnessed. But I see this as a perfect example of what a fedora should look like.(My opinion may differ from others.) I hope that more people post some 20's real soon!

 

[The Inspector]

Also, I got this box after my great friend didn't need it for his hat anymore(Got stolen) so he decided that I could use it.

How ever, I do not have another Knox 20 series and had just inherited my great grandfathers Royal Stetson but ran out of space. So I decided to be "politicly incorrect" with the hat and let it stay in my Knox box.

 

[Evan]

That actually helped out a lot thank you! It's still tough to get any information on Knox Hats or their history so this is a nice update of information. Thank you kindly.

 

[The Inspector]

Your most certainly welcome. I, to have a hard time finding anything on Knox hats but i did find this site(to whom I know the owner) that posted a little bit of history of Knox hats and sells them from time to time. knoxhatsrevisited.com But I was very upset that Knox had to close down back in 2009. But welcome to the lounge!

 

[Evan]

Thanks, I was very, disheartened to find them out of business. It's a shame that the times have changed for fashion. But on a lighter note, I'm glad to have found the lounge!

 

[The Inspector]

Amen to that!

 

[JAVIER]

Knox
One of the premiere hat-makers in the day, along with Dobbs and Cavanagh, Knox positioned their hats as being the best money could buy, and had a knack for exploiting a market with slick advertising.

The company was located in Norwalk, CT, where many of the the high end hatters were located, including Cavanagh, Crofut & Knapp, and Dobbs.

Knox was bought out by Byer-Rolnick (Resistol) and eventually became part of HatCo in the 1960s.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...ic-Hat-Makers-List&highlight=hat+makers+links

 

[The Inspector]

Funny because I was just about to post this.

A history of Knox hatters

Knox was started in 1838 when Charles Knox opened a small hat shop on Fulton Street in downtown New York. His aim was to make the finest hat in the city. He succeeded and by 1854 he had the largest hat shop in the city. Famous customers included abe lincoln, henery clay and horace greely.*

In 1932 at the depth of the Great Depression, Cavanagh, Dobbs, and Knox Hat company merged to become the hat corporation of America or hat-co.

Time Magazine on Knox Dunlap merger 1929

*Monday, May. 27, 1929*

When, last week, Knox Hat Co., Inc., announced an offering* of no par, non-voting common at $140 a share, a few U. S. hat wearers remembered the time (1917) when Knox shares were selling at $6. That was during a reorganization period following the retirement (1913) of Colonel Edward M. Knox, son of Founder Charles Knox, and before the arrival of the present management, which, under the leadership of President F. H. Montgomery, showed net earnings in 1928 of $859,997, or $10.10 a share on common stock. Acquiring Dunlap & Co. (1919), Long's Hat Stores Corp. (1927), Kaskel & Kaskel Corp. (1928), Knox Hat Co., Inc., today operates 62 retail stores as well as distributing Knox and Dunlap hats through some 2,500 agencies. Net sales in 1928 were $8,141,323.

Hats. The felt hat, as everyone knows, is made from rabbit fur. According to ancient Chinese legend, the discovery of the felt hat resulted from the aching feet of a tired Chinaman. This Chinaman, rabbit hunting, had caught several rabbits.

In catching the rabbits, however, he had tramped many a mile, and sore and painful were his feet. So he skinned two of his rabbits, put their fur in his shoes, and quickly eased his throbs and burnings.

How this experience resulted in felt hats rather than in felt shoes, legend does not relate, but it is undeniably true that the raw material for felt hats is the little animal with the long ears and the reputation for timidity and fertility. The straw hat lacks a romantic legendary origin, but includes in its ranks probably the world's most expensive hat—the Panama—handwoven from fibres of palm leaves in Ecuador and priced up to $500. Knox sells about a half dozen a year of the $500 variety.

Heads. The hatter deals with heads as much as with hats, and many a famed head, including the heads of 23 U. S Presidents, has been protected and ornamented with Knox hats. The hatter, of course, takes a bird's-eye view of heads and in the Knox files are thousands of outlines (technically known as "conforms") of heads as they appear when looked straight down at. Generally speaking, there are two main types of outline—a long, narrow ellipse hardly wider at the centre than at the ends, and a short, pear-shaped figure with the wide part at the back. Long and narrow were the heads of Theodore Roosevelt, Robert G. Ingersoll, Victor Herbert. Short and pear-shaped were the heads of Ulysses S. Grant, Charles Frohman, General Phil Sheridan.

Calvin Coolidge's cranium shows a distinct bump on the left side and William Howard Taft's has bumps on both sides.

Manhattan's Jimmy Walker has the narrow oval head; Pittsburgh's Andrew Mellon is pronouncedly among the pear-heads.

Knox men say that judges and generals have usually the same shaped heads.

The average hat size is 7⅛. Among average size takers are Calvin Coolidge and Al Jolson. John D. Rockefeller Sr. wears a 7¬? John D. Rockefeller Jr. a 7⅜. The largest hat ever made was a special order from a Ringling Brothers Giant, who weighed 480 pounds and took an 8⅞. There is not much variation in straw hat styles, straws of the present (delayed) season tending toward a narrowed brim and a slightly bell-shaped crown.*

Figures on hat sales show that many a thrifty U. S. citizen must wear old hats through new seasons, as U. S. hat consumption is only ¬? a hat per capita per annum.

Charles Knox, founder of Knox Hats, came to the U. S. from Ireland in 1830, aged 12. The New York bound ship in which he crossed the Atlantic had been blown far out of its course and finally made port at Wilmington, Del., leaving Charles, 12, and his sister Margaret, 10, stranded 118 miles from their parents in Manhattan. "How are you going to get to New York?" asked the ship captain, who wanted to put Margaret in some Wilmington household and ship Charles as a cabin boy. "We'll walk," said Charles, and they did, in two weeks, to Battery Park, Manhattan.

Charles was apprenticed to Leary & Co., famed hatters of 105 Broad St. After learning his trade at a salary of $25 a year, he was given a $250 bonus and a $10 a week job. Still not quite 20 years old, Charles Knox opened the first Knox shop at 110 Fulton St. So small was his store that only one customer at a time could be accommodated. Thus the shop became known as the Hole in the Wall, a title which many a small retailer has since appropriated. But many a hat came out of the hole and Hatter Knox soon moved to larger quarters. Among early Knox customers were Daniel Webster, Horace Greeley, James Gordon Bennet, Thurlow Weed, Henry Clay, Abraham Lincoln.

In 1857 there came to the Knox store a mother with her 12 year old son, asked Hatter Knox to give her Robert a job.

Hatter Knox consented, employed 12-year-old to make fires, to sweep the shop, to run errands, all for $3 weekly.

Soon the boy graduated to the ranks of the hat salesmen, and several years later was still selling Knox hats, his salary now having risen to $12 weekly. Ambitious, he asked for $15. But Hatter Knox refused the raise. Angry, Robert left, started his own hat business. Thus began the famed Dunlap hat company, founded by Robert Dunlap, onetime Knox errand boy.

Meanwhile Hatter Knox was growing old, and gray were the hairs under the Knox hat worn on the Knox head. So gradually Hatter Knox's son, Colonel Edward Knox, took control of the business.

When Charles Knox died (1895) the business had already been for some years under the direction of Colonel Knox* whose chief problem was competition with the rapidly rising Dunlap hat. Whether because Robert Dunlap, liberal, kindly, used frequently to suspend production in Dunlap shops while he bought beer for the men and ice cream for the women, or because of a secret process by which Hatter Dunlap succeeded in turning out the blackest derbies ever known, the Dunlap hat eventually outsold the Knox in Manhattan. For many a year small hat-makers held up their spring lines until they could see and imitate the Dunlap derby and the Knox felt. As for Knox-Dunlap competition, both the Knox and the Dunlap businesses declined with the age and retirement of their two leaders and soon after the present Knox management had rehabilitated the Knox company it absorbed the Dunlap also.

*Although the Colonel was an honorary title, conferred by Congress, Colonel Knox was no armchair military man. He fought in the Civil War and was wounded at Gettysburg.

 

[Dinerman]

Hey there, I'm a newcomer to this awesome forum and could use some help. For my anniversary I got a Knox 20 hat, and Google isn't too keen on giving me much information about these hats or their age. So I was wondering if someone could assist me in this manner. I have several photos of the hat including the box and the inside of the hat itself. My apologies for the blurriness, I will fix it if necessary.
The front and top of the box.

Mid-late 1960s

 

[Brad Bowers]

I'm surprised knoxhatsrevisited.com hasn't received a cease-and-desist order, since the trademark is still owned by RHE Hatco, Inc., down in Garland, TX. The Knox brand was still being used as an exclusive line for Levine Hats, last I knew.
After 1932, when Knox And Dunlap were bought out by Cavanagh-Dobbs, Inc., the new Hat Corporation of America (not Hatco, that's a completely different and modern company) essentially made the Knox indistinguishable from the Dobbs brand. They may have had different models, but they're basically the same hat with different sweats and liners thrown in. A true Knox was gone by 1932. By the 1960s, even a Cavanagh was a Dobbs was a Knox, with little to differentiate them.

Brad

 

[Deleted member 16736]

Wow, I thought this thread was going to be about dating Amanda Knox. What a disappointment.

 

[facade]

Funny because I was just about to post this.

A history of Knox hatters

Knox was started in 1838 when Charles Knox opened a small hat shop on Fulton Street in downtown New York. His aim was to make the finest hat in the city. He succeeded and by 1854 he had the largest hat shop in the city. Famous customers included abe lincoln, henery clay and horace greely.*

In 1932 at the depth of the Great Depression, Cavanagh, Dobbs, and Knox Hat company merged to become the hat corporation of America or hat-co.

Time Magazine on Knox Dunlap merger 1929

*Monday, May. 27, 1929*

When, last week, Knox Hat Co., Inc., announced an offering* of no par, non-voting common at $140 a share, a few U. S. hat wearers remembered the time (1917) when Knox shares were selling at $6. That was during a reorganization period following the retirement (1913) of Colonel Edward M. Knox, son of Founder Charles Knox, and before the arrival of the present management, which, under the leadership of President F. H. Montgomery, showed net earnings in 1928 of $859,997, or $10.10 a share on common stock. Acquiring Dunlap & Co. (1919), Long's Hat Stores Corp. (1927), Kaskel & Kaskel Corp. (1928), Knox Hat Co., Inc., today operates 62 retail stores as well as distributing Knox and Dunlap hats through some 2,500 agencies. Net sales in 1928 were $8,141,323.

Hats. The felt hat, as everyone knows, is made from rabbit fur. According to ancient Chinese legend, the discovery of the felt hat resulted from the aching feet of a tired Chinaman. This Chinaman, rabbit hunting, had caught several rabbits.

In catching the rabbits, however, he had tramped many a mile, and sore and painful were his feet. So he skinned two of his rabbits, put their fur in his shoes, and quickly eased his throbs and burnings.

How this experience resulted in felt hats rather than in felt shoes, legend does not relate, but it is undeniably true that the raw material for felt hats is the little animal with the long ears and the reputation for timidity and fertility. The straw hat lacks a romantic legendary origin, but includes in its ranks probably the world's most expensive hat—the Panama—handwoven from fibres of palm leaves in Ecuador and priced up to $500. Knox sells about a half dozen a year of the $500 variety.

Heads. The hatter deals with heads as much as with hats, and many a famed head, including the heads of 23 U. S Presidents, has been protected and ornamented with Knox hats. The hatter, of course, takes a bird's-eye view of heads and in the Knox files are thousands of outlines (technically known as "conforms") of heads as they appear when looked straight down at. Generally speaking, there are two main types of outline—a long, narrow ellipse hardly wider at the centre than at the ends, and a short, pear-shaped figure with the wide part at the back. Long and narrow were the heads of Theodore Roosevelt, Robert G. Ingersoll, Victor Herbert. Short and pear-shaped were the heads of Ulysses S. Grant, Charles Frohman, General Phil Sheridan.

Calvin Coolidge's cranium shows a distinct bump on the left side and William Howard Taft's has bumps on both sides.

Manhattan's Jimmy Walker has the narrow oval head; Pittsburgh's Andrew Mellon is pronouncedly among the pear-heads.

Knox men say that judges and generals have usually the same shaped heads.

The average hat size is 7⅛. Among average size takers are Calvin Coolidge and Al Jolson. John D. Rockefeller Sr. wears a 7¬? John D. Rockefeller Jr. a 7⅜. The largest hat ever made was a special order from a Ringling Brothers Giant, who weighed 480 pounds and took an 8⅞. There is not much variation in straw hat styles, straws of the present (delayed) season tending toward a narrowed brim and a slightly bell-shaped crown.*

Figures on hat sales show that many a thrifty U. S. citizen must wear old hats through new seasons, as U. S. hat consumption is only ¬? a hat per capita per annum.

Charles Knox, founder of Knox Hats, came to the U. S. from Ireland in 1830, aged 12. The New York bound ship in which he crossed the Atlantic had been blown far out of its course and finally made port at Wilmington, Del., leaving Charles, 12, and his sister Margaret, 10, stranded 118 miles from their parents in Manhattan. "How are you going to get to New York?" asked the ship captain, who wanted to put Margaret in some Wilmington household and ship Charles as a cabin boy. "We'll walk," said Charles, and they did, in two weeks, to Battery Park, Manhattan.

Charles was apprenticed to Leary & Co., famed hatters of 105 Broad St. After learning his trade at a salary of $25 a year, he was given a $250 bonus and a $10 a week job. Still not quite 20 years old, Charles Knox opened the first Knox shop at 110 Fulton St. So small was his store that only one customer at a time could be accommodated. Thus the shop became known as the Hole in the Wall, a title which many a small retailer has since appropriated. But many a hat came out of the hole and Hatter Knox soon moved to larger quarters. Among early Knox customers were Daniel Webster, Horace Greeley, James Gordon Bennet, Thurlow Weed, Henry Clay, Abraham Lincoln.

In 1857 there came to the Knox store a mother with her 12 year old son, asked Hatter Knox to give her Robert a job.

Hatter Knox consented, employed 12-year-old to make fires, to sweep the shop, to run errands, all for $3 weekly.

Soon the boy graduated to the ranks of the hat salesmen, and several years later was still selling Knox hats, his salary now having risen to $12 weekly. Ambitious, he asked for $15. But Hatter Knox refused the raise. Angry, Robert left, started his own hat business. Thus began the famed Dunlap hat company, founded by Robert Dunlap, onetime Knox errand boy.

Meanwhile Hatter Knox was growing old, and gray were the hairs under the Knox hat worn on the Knox head. So gradually Hatter Knox's son, Colonel Edward Knox, took control of the business.

When Charles Knox died (1895) the business had already been for some years under the direction of Colonel Knox* whose chief problem was competition with the rapidly rising Dunlap hat. Whether because Robert Dunlap, liberal, kindly, used frequently to suspend production in Dunlap shops while he bought beer for the men and ice cream for the women, or because of a secret process by which Hatter Dunlap succeeded in turning out the blackest derbies ever known, the Dunlap hat eventually outsold the Knox in Manhattan. For many a year small hat-makers held up their spring lines until they could see and imitate the Dunlap derby and the Knox felt. As for Knox-Dunlap competition, both the Knox and the Dunlap businesses declined with the age and retirement of their two leaders and soon after the present Knox management had rehabilitated the Knox company it absorbed the Dunlap also.

*Although the Colonel was an honorary title, conferred by Congress, Colonel Knox was no armchair military man. He fought in the Civil War and was wounded at Gettysburg.

One thing this bio fails to mention is that Colonel Edward M. Knox was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for his service at Gettysburg.

 

[facade]

Here is my box. I would rate it(on a scale of 1-100) a 82 because there is a bit of fading and quite a few dents in it. But the inside of the box is fine, no major dents, and no rips.

The hat is a different story. I would rate it a 93 because of the dirty liner it has and the rip in it as well. But other than that there is nothing wrong, no moth bites no tears or damage to the hat, and the ribbon is absolutely beautiful.

Over all the set is a 89. But its very popular and the demand for a wide brimmed fedora is quite high from what I have witnessed. But I see this as a perfect example of what a fedora should look like.(My opinion may differ from others.) I hope that more people post some 20's real soon!

You may wish to check out this thread.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?18386-The-School-of-Hard-Knox&

 

[Evan]

Fantastic, that was even more things I did not know.

 

[The Inspector]

One thing this bio fails to mention is that Colonel Edward M. Knox was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor for his service at Gettysburg.

Well I as I mentioned before did not write this. It was time magazine that did but I did read somewhere about that though. And thank you for posting the link to the thread it was spectacular!

 

[The Inspector]

I felt the same way about the site, but haven't heard any word that anyone is asking for it to be torn down. I don't know if they just ignoring it or what. But that fine lady sure does love those hats.

 

[Evan]

Thank you kindly, I now have a nice fedora and know its age.

 

[rrd]

Anyone know when knox used this logo?

http://www.trademarkia.com/moveo-et-proficio-71261884.html