Join Me in Heresy

[Stlawrence]

OK, I know I'm stirring a hornets' nest here, but what the heck.

From reviewing about three millennia of photos on this site, I note that people like a tight-fitting jacket, for the most part. A-2s and G-1s that I have seen are usually pretty trimly fit.

Well, I have to disagree, respectfully. I like a loose-fitting jacket. My favorite jacket right now is my Carhartt Extreme jacket in large, and I swim in the thing. You talk about tunnel sleeves? Hell, my hands can be 1/4 of the way up the sleeve if I want. I can hold the jacket out, and have four good inches between me and the jacket.

But you know what? When it's 20 below zero, which we routinely hit in upstate, I can put a hooded sweatshirt under my jacket and never feel cramped. I can wear a sweater under it. Heck. I could wear a full biohazard suit under it if I wanted.

Which brings me to my point. Why have a jacket so tight that you can't wear a sweatshirt under it if you want? Or a sweater? Seems to me that is just practical. My body is nothing to look at anyway, so why have a tight jacket to show off my pudginess?

So, the question to you is, how many of you like a jacket that is a little loose fitting? How many like a jacket that is tighter?

Sound off.

 

[red devil]

OK, I know I'm stirring a hornets' nest here, but what the heck.

From reviewing about three millennia of photos on this site, I note that people like a tight-fitting jacket, for the most part. A-2s and G-1s that I have seen are usually pretty trimly fit.

Well, I have to disagree, respectfully. I like a loose-fitting jacket. My favorite jacket right now is my Carhartt Extreme jacket in large, and I swim in the thing. You talk about tunnel sleeves? Hell, my hands can be 1/4 of the way up the sleeve if I want. I can hold the jacket out, and have four good inches between me and the jacket.

But you know what? When it's 20 below zero, which we routinely hit in upstate, I can put a hooded sweatshirt under my jacket and never feel cramped. I can wear a sweater under it. Heck. I could wear a full biohazard suit under it if I wanted.

Which brings me to my point. Why have a jacket so tight that you can't wear a sweatshirt under it if you want? Or a sweater? Seems to me that is just practical. My body is nothing to look at anyway, so why have a tight jacket to show off my pudginess?

So, the question to you is, how many of you like a jacket that is a little loose fitting? How many like a jacket that is tighter?

Sound off.

I find that a looser fitting jacket is more versatile in use, just put on a hoodie as you mentioned and it fits well. Usable in almost all circumstances. Now we are talking of a bit loose and not very loose which in my experience looks plain wrong.

On the other hand, a tight fitting jacket looks very cool, and you can wear it all Spring.

So my take on it, have both options available

 

[Peacoat]

I like mine to fit a bit loosely. Probably not lose enough for a sweater (unless it is intentionally built that way) and heaven forbid, not enough room for a sweatshirt. They are a lot of bulk without the warmth of a wool sweater. Some of my MC jackets were ordered with room for a sweater or a vest underneath, but most of the streetwear jackets are fitted without room to layer—not a tight fit, but just a bit on the slim side.

 

[ton312]

I think a proper fitting jacket allows for both and still looks good. Too tight is awful. I've had many. Too loose is equally unflattering. I try to find a fit that allows for a thin layer or just a tshirt and still looks good. It's not easy.
Should be said too that some styles are designed to accommodate heavy layers where some are not. The fit on a barnstormer vs. a CR shouldn't and won't be the same in the same size paradigm.

I have also said that the battle cry of a person who refuses to admit the jacket is too large is echoed in "room to layer". Either the style is designed for that or it is not. At least that's my approach.

 

[Powerband]

+1 what Ton said. It’s a good thing there are choices of jackets not only with style but with their fittings. And that’s the curse. I have some that are fitted by the nature of their style and some that are slightly loose for layering, also by the nature of their style.


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[zebedee]

I'm totally on board with this. Although my CR is designed to be a tight fit, none of my other Aeros is- I prefer some room in them, and find 50s styles better in this regard than 30s. I have tended to live and work for the last 17 years in places that either do not really require jackets or where winters make them essential (with layers and when they really become practical items). The CR only allows for a light shirt or t-shirt under it, which limits its usefulness- in hindsight, I'd have sized up from 40 to 42.

It does look odd when someone is swimming in in a jacket, though, especially when the sleeves are too wide and the shoulders too loose- I think the fit issue is also driven by the fear of making a 700 quid mistake (occasionally even if only in others' eyes).

 

[Big J]

If you are asking specifically about A-2 and M442a/G-1 jackets of the 40's and 50's, then they were designed to be worn over only a uniform shirt and an undershirt, and not designed to be worn over a sweatshirt.
A genuine vintage jacket (or high quality repro of such) should not be big enough to wear a sweatshirt under for a tag size that matches your chest size.
I think you've partially answered your own question; you are in bad shape and seek to use a baggy jacket to hide your body shape. Many fat guys do. I did. It doesn't work.
And there were no fat fighter pilots.

When we look at pictures of WWII pilots wearing their jackets, people always argue that this or that guy has a 'loose fit' or a 'trim fit', but without knowing the tag size of the jackets worn in photos (and we almost never do) it is impossible to know if the jacket in question is the correct size for the wearer or simply the closest size in stores at time of issue.

I can't comment on other styles of jacket.

 

[El Marro]

Before I got the leather jacket bug and joined this forum most of my jackets were Carhartts and I too preferred them on the roomier side. As I progressed down the jacket collecting rabbit hole I have come to appreciate a trimmer fit (not tight though) because I think it looks better. This is especially true of the jackets that I had made to order, I want them to look as though they were made for me!
I have owned both A-2 and G-1 jackets that were too big and/or too long. They were comfortable, and I would much rather have too big than too small (as Fanch has pointed out on several occasions). At the end of the day though, they didn't look right to me and I passed them on.
I'm sure that living where I do also plays a part. The climate is quite mild here in the San Francisco Bay Area and I rarely feel the need to put anything more than a long sleeve shirt on under a jacket.
Cool thread Stlawrence!

 

[Mark Ricketts]

It all depends what you want. Without a doubt a nice trim leather jacket looks the best when you are playing, but my proper wool coat a full two sizes too big beats it hands down for working in the cold. It's just a shame it looks like a sack of spuds.

 

[nick123]

 

[Seb Lucas]

Heresy, shmeresy. StL you're not the first person to start a thread on this or even interrupt another thread with this line of argument. The debate around period fit or trim versus loose is frequent. As is the debate about jacket length. I have noticed that in the time I have been posting here trim jackets have become much more fashionable, probably the result of Thurston Bros influential trim fit bias and recommendations.

The debate here often comes back down to what people think the jacket maker's intention for fit is or how a particular jacket was worn back in the day or some other quest for authenticity.

One problem with this debate is no one can really objectively measure what is trim versus what is baggy. It's really just opinions based on what we see in photos. I like a loose jacket, I hate a baggy jacket - but what's the difference? I know it when I see it.

Take A2's. If you study the photos from the second war you can see all kinds of fit. Loose and trim. So there's no specific answer here. BUT - today's (mass produced) A2 patterns frequently have outsized shoulders (22 inches wide on a 42!) a period jacket would have sat at around 18 inches. Most modern A2 pattens are cut big and look ugly as a consequence to my eye.

Additionally, there's period fit and period body size. A2's were generally worn by young thin men. An older chap who has consumed too many sodas and burgers probably isn't best seen in an A2 in the first place, tight or loose. But it's a free world.

 

[Superfluous]

The above posters have hit the nail on the head:

• Different style jackets serve different purposes and are intended to fit differently.
• Slim jackets (to a point) are often better looking, but looser jackets (to a point) are more comfortable -- the trick is to balance these two factors based on the style and function of the jacket.
• Climate plays a role, as residents of warmer climates have less need to layer.
• The entire discussion is wildly subjective, as is the fundamental demarcation between trim and loose.

 

[ProteinNerd]

Anyone of us could go into the whole trim vs tight (they are different) vs loose but at the end of the day, is your jacket, wear it however the hell you want. My opinion isn't going to change your mind and vice versa.

 

[ton312]

^^well said.

 

[kronos77]

I like trimmer fitting jackets like the 30s halfbelt from Aero. When it gets cold I wear my wool topcoat. One jacket won't do it all.

 

[scottyrocks]

There's roomy and then there's roomy.

When I put on a leather jacket, if I can extend my arms all the forward without it pulling across the back, and the sleeve bottoms don't ride up my arms, there's a chance that the jacket is roomy enough for me without looking like a lawn and leaf bag.

 

[Big J]

@Seb Lucas, you had me at sodas and burgers!

 

[JMax]

I live in south Florida and ride so most of my jackets are tight/slim fitted. T-shirt and that is all I need or want. The style and purpose of the jacket do matter. But not only is the the style of the jacket critical to fit but how each brand chooses to build each particular style. Excluding customized jackets— Some brands only fit me in a slim fit, others only fit all a round with room for one layer. I tend to only go for the tighter fits but if I like the jacket I will keep it to use when a layer is required or preferred. As stated earlier, one jacket can’t do it all.

 

[Mich486]

I agree of course that the most important is to feel yourself comfortable in whatever you wear and there are style that are slimmer/baggier fitting than others by design.

That said, I believe there is also a geographical component. The average American tends to wear clothes that in the eyes of a European are a size (maybe two) too big on him. This is reflected also on tag sizes where a EUropean M is an American S etc. I don’t know when this trend started probably in the 90s? Watching movies I don’t think it always was like that.


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[navetsea]

are there so many if any tight fitting aviation jacket wearers here?
motorcycle jacket is more likely, however anything tight fitting is bad, slim and trim fitting is what you want in leather jacket for the looks, if you think in full utilitarian mode, then you might compromise the look part which is the whole point of wearing leather jacket to me.