John Wayne's Akubra?

[gtdean48]

From the auction site, 7X Clear Beaver seems to be the hat body of choice for the Duke.....

 

[HatsEnough]

From the auction site, 7X Clear Beaver seems to be the hat body of choice for the Duke.....

One of them was also a Resistol (The Rooster Cogburn hat).

 

[gtdean48]

One of them was also a Resistol (The Rooster Cogburn hat).

And some other custom ones but I was mainly looking at the calvary slouch hat types from Hondo, etc....

 

[4spurs]

I checked that John Wayne auction out, took a look inside one of the hats; Stetson label says "XXXXXXX CLEAR BEAVER" from a store in Eagle Pass, TX.

http://entertainment.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7045&lotNo=44004#Photo

 

[Sam Craig]

Notice some of the hats in the auction are from Nudies.

I have had some great good luck and came up with an older ... probably early '80s ... Resistol with promise.
I narrowed the brim and went to work on the crown, following the guidance that was shared with us all in the awesome Roy Rogers Youtube video on shaping a western felt

So, after thoroughly soaking the hat, I set up Rio Bravo and began working.
There are some interesting nuances to the crown shape, but after I was done, it looked pretty good.

It's still not the same thin felt, but what would you expect?
If there is any truth to the story of "The Hat," John Wayne first wore it in either Fort Apache, 1948, or in Stagecoach, 1939.
Peter Bogdanovich has said Wayne told him the hat, which Bogdanovich says he saw under glass in Wayne's house late in his life, was the one he wore in so many of his westerns, and PB specified it was the same hat from Stagecoach and from the cavalry movies.
I find this hard to believe, but nevertheless, the hat that he wore in Rio Bravo ... the last time he used it on film ... was clearly that ame one he wore in Hondo and at least one or two of the cavalry fliks.
At any rate, it would have been from a weight of felt that you don't regularly see being used in western hats today. Just look at the consistency in the films.
For another example of the weight of the felt, consider the black hat Wayne wears in The Searchers. Watch the scene where the wind is at his back and you'll see the brim blow clear up against the crown. These were using much lighter felt than current cowboy hats do.

Anyway, the Resistol turned out great and since I'm not going to any John Wayne look alike contests, it looks good on a hat rest in the living room.

Who knows? Maybe I'll finally break down and figure out how the heck to post a photo on this site!

Thanks for all the good suggestions.

Sam

 

[monbla256]

At any rate, it would have been from a weight of felt that you don't regularly see being used in western hats today. Just look at the consistency in the films.
For another example of the weight of the felt, consider the black hat Wayne wears in The Searchers. Watch the scene where the wind is at his back and you'll see the brim blow clear up against the crown. These were using much lighter felt than current cowboy hats do.

Sam

Another factor is that not as much stiffener or shellac was used in ALL hats as is used in Western hats today. A medium wieght felt, well used WITHOUT stiffener is much more flexible.

 

[danofarlington]

Another factor is that not as much stiffener or shellac was used in ALL hats as is used in Western hats today. A medium wieght felt, well used WITHOUT stiffener is much more flexible.

Why did stiffener become so popular in Western hats?

 

[monbla256]

Why did stiffener become so popular in Western hats?

When they went from bieng a true tool of a proffesion to being more of a "fashion Statement". Probably after Hollywood became enamoured with the "cowboy"

 

[Sam Craig]

When you look carefully at the period shots of Wayne's hats from the '40s, you can tell that they are using a MUCH thinner felt than you will find today.
Look at a closeup where you can see the edge of the brim head on and you'll see this is really thin felt compared to today's.

I remember the changes that hit the western hat industry post Urban Cowboy, when production sky-rocketed and quality tumbled, but that is a different issue

My first good western felt was a Beaver brand, coney fur, bought in the mid 60s. It was a great hat, but it was still the thicker felt

The Hondo hat is really thin felt ... for what it's worth

Sam

 

[gtdean48]

When you look carefully at the period shots of Wayne's hats from the '40s, you can tell that they are using a MUCH thinner felt than you will find today.
Look at a closeup where you can see the edge of the brim head on and you'll see this is really thin felt compared to today's.

I remember the changes that hit the western hat industry post Urban Cowboy, when production sky-rocketed and quality tumbled, but that is a different issue

My first good western felt was a Beaver brand, coney fur, bought in the mid 60s. It was a great hat, but it was still the thicker felt

The Hondo hat is really thin felt ... for what it's worth

Sam

I've bought some vintage Stetson western & posted some of the conversions.
I own recently purchased Stetson westerns as well as Resistols from the late 1970s thru to the 1990s for showing horses in NRHA events.
The modern western felt is considerably thicker but I'm not so sure about being more or less stiff.
Some of the vintage ones, especially those NOS with little to no wear are STIFF.
Now they soften up readily with water & handling.
As long as I don't steam to reactivate the shellac, they stay soft.
The brim thickness is definitely much thinner than what I consider modern versions = anything since late 1970s when Urban Cowboy drove demand.
Some DoubleX grade hats are quite thin but rigid.
I am sure the costumers limbered those hats up to get the well-used look & feel to them.

 

[Sam Craig]

I finished work on the Rio Bravo Resistol last night, except I am considering some false staining to get that "lived in" look, and I continued studying the movie as I worked on the hat.

Gtdean is right about the thickness. There is no comparison. Even the felt of this old Resistol ... it must be from the 80s ... is about twice as thick as what Wayne wore, at least in the cav hats. It's just an entirely different medium.

That is what prompted this thread.

I was considering the thinness ... comparitively speaking .... between that Resistol western I was working with ... it is from the old Stagecoach line ... and the thinness of modern Akubra felt.

Someone suggested working with an Akubra Boss of the Plains earlier in this thread and I think that might be the right pick. It's got a 3.5 inch brim and if the weight is similar to a campdraft or a bushman, it might just work

Of course, that would mean that I want to invest about a hundred bucks plus shipping into a John Wayne Cav hat, which I don't. Especially since I've already got the job done with the old Resistol

If I was to walk into the local Salvation Army and find a Boss of the Plains, I do believe I would be tempted, but I don't look for that to happen any time soon.

So the whole thing was just an excersize in hatology ... however it did get me off center in finishing the Resistol cav hat project and I promise I will finally figure out the whole photo posting gig so I can get pics up .... I've been wanting to post shots of my original Lemon Yellow Champ fedora for a long time anyway.... I've never met anyone who's seen one other than mine.

Later, and thanks for all the suggestions ...

Sam

 

[Sam Craig]

See?

Look at the edge of that felt!

That is exactly what I am talking about.

And onto another subject, for the western fans out there, look at the way the Hollywood cowboy hat is shaped in the front, with the brim angle slightly "up" instead of what we all did with ours, shaping the front down.

Why?

If you've done any photography you know ... and watch the westerns, you'll see what I'm talking about.

The downward tilt to the front of the brim creates too much shade and makes it hard to get light onto the subject's face

Anyway, this is a great example of the felt.

To answer the question ... I'd consider the Boss of the Plains to recreate Ronnie's lid,

Sam

Man, that is great looking felt.

 

[gtdean48]

So would that ultra lightweight felt from Winchester that Art and Jimmy Pierce and others are using now be appropriate for a cowboy hat?!
...

The thickness is right with the ArtLite but since it is generally done as a fedora, they don't shellac the brim enough to go western.
You get much wider than a 2 1/2" brim, Art has to bind it or welt it, under or over, to give it some rigidity. I can't imagine how floppy a 3" or wider raw edge brim would be on an ArtLite.

Now, this is a DoubleX vintage Resistol that has the brim thickness Sam is looking for that I got out of the Bay a while ago. Its brim is a wafer compared to my late 1970s Resistol below it...

 

[frussell]

Sam - not all of that brim shape on Ronnie's hat is for photography purposes. I watched my grandfather over the last 40 years or so do exactly the same thing with his cowboy hats. It's a matter of time, taking it on and off by the brim, getting it wet, throwing it in the back seat, laying it on a table, brim down, etc... All his hats started with nice even curl, in the shape we're used to seeing new, but ended up looking like Reagan's after a few years. This was especially true with the finer, thinner felt Stetsons he had. Another tip I've had luck with in finding good, thin, shapeable westerns is looking on eBay for old American Hat Co. models in my size. Even some recent (70s - 80s) models came in nice and thin, especially at the edges. I can't stand overly thick, clunky felt brims that look like they've been cut with scissors. Good luck to you. Frank
Here's Reagan in what looks like a newer, less-"distressed" model of the same hat.

 

[danofarlington]

So would that ultra lightweight felt from Winchester that Art and Jimmy Pierce and others are using now be appropriate for a cowboy hat?!

On another subject, what would be a good starter hat for the famous Ronald Reagan silverbelly photo?

I agree that the thin-brim Western hats are cooler-looking than the thick-brim variety.

 

[DanielJones]

You may have at least one image where the brim is down.

But yes, may are of the brim with that distinctive bar room floor curl.

And of course the Rio Bravo hat.

Back when Angie Dickenson was hot. Just had to throw that one in for good measure.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[jlee562]

Just watched Rio Bravo last night actually...great movie.

 

[gtdean48]

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This photo shows what looks to be an Open Road style ribbon treatment below the hat cord...

 

[danofarlington]

Anybody wonder why Westerns were such popular movies for decades? They pioneered a new set of stories and did a lot of cool things. After the 1960s we'd had enough of them for a while, because they were so prevalent in the 40s and beyond, but looking back, they had a lot going for them story-wise and costume-wise.

 

[gtdean48]

Does anybody know where I can get the #585 black & gold hat cord w/o paying almost the same for shipping that the item cost?
http://www.millerhats.com/accesories_index/civilwarbands.html