Jacket for a lifetime: A2, or some alternative?

[leonardg]

I've been thinking a lot about all of this, but I still scratch my head over this:

Why is accuracy so important to each of you? I can understand why a vet would want to recreate his original jacket, but why should a kid like me, born about 30 years after the relevant wars ended, lose sleep over the specifics of this or that contract model?

Thanks as always.

 

[aswatland]

I've been thinking a lot about all of this, but I still scratch my head over this:

Why is accuracy so important to each of you? I can understand why a vet would want to recreate his original jacket, but why should a kid like me, born about 30 years after the relevant wars ended, lose sleep over the specifics of this or that contract model?

Thanks as always.

In the past many vets who no longer had their original A2 often bought a repro, perhaps an Avirex or another less than accurate jacket. With the passing of time many forget the exact details of their original jacket. Some however do buy decent, accurate repros from Eastman or Good Wear.

As a historian and a collector of original A2s accuracy is crucial and the fun part of this hobby is obtaining the ultimate repro A2, which could be mistaken for an original. It may be pride or perhaps just a fascination with original details that explains why an accurate repro is deemed to be essential. Re-enactors of course need to wear a decent repro. If you ask for opinions on this site you will get many but the real jacket heads here will only advocate the most accurate repros.There is plenty of room though for people who are not fussed about accuracy and plenty of manufacturers are happy to sell them an A2 style jacket. Each to his own.

 

[leonardg]

That's what I figured. I certainly understand the importance of accuracy from a historical/memorabilia/collector's standpoint, and I don't mean to downplay that importance at all.

[Edit/addendum:] While I'm obviously new to the jacket world, I've been a guitar player for 15+ years, and there are a lot of players who care very strongly about vintage guitars. A lot of those guys grew up in the 50s and 60s when the first strats and teles hit the market, and when artists were first using them. Getting vintage gear accordingly has a lot of sentimental value for them. I recently bought a very nice tele-style guitar from a boutique maker that specializes in repro vintage Fenders. I got the tele body with the strat pickup configuration. To me, it was the best of both worlds. Vintage guys, on the other hand, would probably see it as a bastardization. I haven't regretted that decision for an instant.

Point being, I understand why many people care about accuracy of vintage guitars, jackets, and all the rest; but it's just never been that important to me. No doubt, I think the repros are very cool, and I'm glad there are guys like John Chapman out there making them available. Whether they're right for me, however, is what I'm trying to figure out.

Also, for the record, I spend a lot of time putzing around the net, and I'm quite impressed by the crowd on this forum. The concentration of intelligent people, able to write cogently, and willing to give their time to a newcomer like me is rare indeed. For the nth time, thanks!

 

[P5640blouson]

All kinds of veterans

All kinds of veterans. Some may want the real deal back after their service, while others just simply want something of similar style as its familiar and reminiscent of the the original. Nevertheless, it is those companies who continue to trace the exact originals who maintain the true history of the design, and without that, it would be lost in time. I'm not a fan of the A-2 but am fascinated at the high quality repros getting the details so close to original, its commendable, no doubt!

 

[herk115]

Leonardg, if it's not too late, here's a suggeston:

Everything you ever wanted to know about vintage and repro A-2s can be found at www.acmedepot.com. Give this site a look. Click on their A-2 section and you will receive a very good education on what makes an A-2 an A-2, what to look for in a repro, how the various repro companies stack up against each other, etc. Then decide if an A-2 is really what you're looking for.

I think, though, that I have to agree with a post above: if you've come this far and have done this level of research, you're hooked, and your future is indeed going to include a closet with numerous repro and vintage A-2s. It's an addiction.

Cheers,

Herk115

 

[Silver Dollar]

Point being, I understand why many people care about accuracy of vintage guitars, jackets, and all the rest; but it's just never been that important to me. No doubt, I think the repros are very cool, and I'm glad there are guys like John Chapman out there making them available. Whether they're right for me, however, is what I'm trying to figure out.

That's why I said in my earlier post, it's all about what you want and what I or anyone else thinks is irrelevant. The experts here are only trying to give you another viewpoint to help you make that critical decision but in the end, only you can make the final choice for your own reasons. In my case, I do want that accuracy. Every day I drool over pictures of the Good Wear A2's and try to figure out how I'm going to afford one. I didn't want my earlier post to indicate that I don't care about accuracy or I'm criticizing those that do. I hope I wasn't being a jerk about it but I didn't want to to ever regret your choice. I was also a vintage guitar collector and a number of times I spent hard earned money being talked into an instrument only to regret that choice and try to get my original choice. Then I had to try and sell what I didn't want and always had to take a loss. I've since dumped my collection in favor of my first choice and have never regretted that decision.

 

[ukali1066]

Actually I think veterans are the least fussy on accuracy...it's the jacket geeks like us that are anal about it all...

Ask most WW2 veterans about their uniform details and they will likely not know that much...not through lack of memory, it just wasn't that big a deal to them how big a collar was or what the material was.

They had MUCH bigger things on their minds...

 

[Silver Dollar]

My excuse is it's up to us to preserve the history as accurately as possible for future generations. We don't ever want them to forget what things looked like.

 

[Lone_Ranger]

I'm debating an an A-2 purchase myself, maybe sometime later in the summer, or fall. But, I have the age old love hate relationship.

I love the look of an A-2, I think it's a classic. And I do agree, the modern cut ones, just don't cut it. They look sloppy.

Then again, the problems I have with the A-2 is the typical 'ride-up" in the back. You'd think a jacket designed to be worn, sitting down in a cockpit would keep the small of your back covered. Also, I don't like to feel restrained across the back of the shoulders, and don't like the sleeve ride-up either.

I will admit that the A-2's I've had in the past were the moderately priced ones from Sporty's Pilot Shop. My pet peeve is that they seem to include the 2 -2 1/2 " or so of knit cuff in the sleeve measurement. So if you are wearing a dress shirt, the shirt cuffs, bind up under the knit cuff, even when your arms are hanging at your side. When you are in the sitting (flying) position it gets worse because the shirt cuffs aren't able to get out they way they would on a suit coat.

I'm wondering if buying a Goodwear A-2 would cure that problem. Perhaps the cheaper coats are trying to save leather, by not making the leather part of the sleeves long enough. Though with the price tag on a GW, I'm still a bit reluctant to pull the trigger.

Are there some of the A-2 'contracts' that fit the shoulders and sleeves better than others?

My other thoughts were to maybe go with an ANJ-3, or a Eastman Hartman jacket.

 

[Silver Dollar]

Even with the high price of the GoodWear, it sounds like that's your best bet. If you don't like an off the rack fit, then GW can make you a jacket fitting just yourself. It'll take a bit longer to get but the concensus is you'll get the best fit out there. In my case, a custom fit looks as goofy as an off the rack fit.

 

[AlanC]

Have you considered an A-1?

 

[leonardg]

Have you considered an A-1?

I prefer the A-2 (or perhaps AN-J-3 or 422/G-1) because of its prevalence. Also, I saw that the Good Wear A-1 is made of capeskin, which appears to be less durable and comfortable than goatskin. Is that accurate?

 

[aswatland]

Many original A-1s were made of capeskin.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I am going to throw my two cents in here.

If you want a gift from your parents that will last a lifetime, one that will
remind you of them everytime you use it, and you can use it every single day
of the year, no matter what the outside weather/temperature is, then what
about a really nice time piece like a fine watch?

Depending on the temperature and weather, you will not be able to wear a
jacket all the time.

But if you get a nice time piece, then you can wear it every single day, no
matter what, and it will remind you of the great gift your parents gave you,
which is their time here on earth!

I know its kind of sappy, but a jacket will wear out, or become too tight and
you won't be able to use it forever.

But a beautiful time piece, one that is made well, and not something you buy
at walmart, can last several life times, and with proper care and maintanence
you will be able to pass it along to your own children if you have them.

You can get some excellent time pieces that are classic designs that will never
go out of style, and that look great with anything you wear. You can even
get an older classic from the 40's or 50's that is still going strong, and will
outlast all of us here on this forum.

Jackets sit in closets most of the time. A fine watch will sit on your wrist all
the time, and it will remind you of your parents every singe second of every
day.

That's one alternative to a jacket.

Jim

 

[Kid Mac]

LG,

I had been thinking the same as Jim-- a watch or a ring.

Mac

 

[leonardg]

Many original A-1s were made of capeskin.

Right - I didn't mean to knock Chapman's decision to go with capeskin. I just don't prefer it.

Jim, thanks for that advice. I've been considering a watch instead. But my fiance actually just bought me a nice watch several months ago, whereas I've never had a nice leather jacket. You're right, though - another watch would be a better fit for my goal with this gift. I'll continue to think about it.

 

[AlanC]

^John's capeskin source has run out, and he is now using a special lightweight horsehide for the A-1.

"Prevalence" seems an odd criteria on which to base your decision. If you prefer the A-2, no big deal, but you did ask for "some alternative".

 

[P5640blouson]

A watch will wear out

A watch will wear out. It's mechanical, or eletronic, or both, and will cost at least a good portion of the original cost to maintain. Even then, it can suffer damage that can render it less than dependable. Its movement may even have to be replaced completely, eventually. The older it gets the less dependable it becomes including loss of water/shock resistance.
A jacket made of quality hide, however, is more resilent and simpler to maintain, and more useful in the long run. Modern culture has all but rendered the wristwatch a mere fashion item, replaced by cellphones, pda's for use in time keeping.
I use to wear a wristwatch 24/7, now it stays on my desk as a reminder of how I once paced my life down to the second.
Drive an open top car, and you'll be wearing your jacket morning and evening, even up to ambient temps of 75 F. During the hot season, send your jacket away for professional cleaning, to a reliable cleaner who won't lose or mess up your stuff. JMO

 

[Silver Dollar]

I just thought of something that may help your decision. My A2's all have paintings on the back. When the weather is too hot to wear them, I hang them on the wall in my basement, part of which looks like a ready room. That way, I either wear them or use them as wall art. Even if you have no painting on the jacket, creative displaying of your jacket in your home somewhere can still bring you a lot of joy. I wish I still have some pictures of a room I decorated. You'd see how I did it. I really hope this helps you.

 

[Seb Lucas]

A watch will wear out. It's mechanical, or eletronic, or both, and will cost at least a good portion of the original cost to maintain. Even then, it can suffer damage that can render it less than dependable. Its movement may even have to be replaced completely, eventually. The older it gets the less dependable it becomes including loss of water/shock resistance.
A jacket made of quality hide, however, is more resilent and simpler to maintain, and more useful in the long run. Modern culture has all but rendered the wristwatch a mere fashion item, replaced by cellphones, pda's for use in time keeping.
I use to wear a wristwatch 24/7, now it stays on my desk as a reminder of how I once paced my life down to the second.
Drive an open top car, and you'll be wearing your jacket morning and evening, even up to ambient temps of 75 F. During the hot season, send your jacket away for professional cleaning, to a reliable cleaner who won't lose or mess up your stuff. JMO

Point well made but not necessarily true. Many people I know wear watches that are 50-80 years old. They have them serviced every few years. Expensive? Yeah kind of, but so is going to a good restaurant for fine food and wine.

I don't have a mobile phone or an iPod or any electronic device and I catch the bus and train most of the time, so I need a watch. As do many others. This is a forum for things vintage so to argue that technology has replaced the watch is kind of irrelevant, you could also say that about the leather jacket (there's gortex or fleece) and the felt fedora (how about a Tilley?) Anyway... you get my point.

As it happens, I wear a cheap Seiko watch which I don't give a &*^% about so I'm not really biased towards timepieces.

I think Leaonardg has worked out that his quest is harder than he at first thought it would be.