It's about time we define "fedora"

[BanjoMerlin]

If you want this sort of basis for a definition, lets take 10-20 photos of hat styles and vote F or NF. If you get enough consensus you'll have a generally agreed upon Fedora Lounge Guideline.

This is what we need to do. Since we have the luxury of visual communication a series of photos would allow us to come to some sort of agreement as to what is (or is not) a fedora.

The definition would come from identifying the commonalities of those hats which are "fedoras" and the differences between the "fedora" and the "not fedora."

This particular hat is, to me, a fedora. If a consensus on this one hat could be reached then at least one question would already be answered.

 

[Lefty]

google images: fedora = the answer

 

[hatophile]

Works for me, Lefty

 

[John in Covina]

I wish I could makes some graphs for this but I'll just say that if we took a standard fedora something that we can all agree on and start there. If I may suggest for a start let's take the Bogie hat as a standard.

As we take the various dimensions such as the brim.

If we make it smaller at some point it may become too small too far to an extreme end of the chart that it no longer can be called fedora, same with too wide.

Do the same with crown height there is a too short and a too tall. Looking at other things like taper, ribbon, crown style, pinch or lack of one, these all have a realm as to what we can all agree on as to what is a fedora.

Where it gets difficult is as we get closer to the extremes there we find that we all have a different "comfort level" a to what we'd say is still a fedora. That's where opinions will get interesting. Still, because the middle ground has a wide range that makes it hard to define too.

This has been a fun start, I think that we'll never really be able to define it clearly but will wind up with example of what a fedora is and examples of what is not a fedora. As with many topics there will be controversy but hopefully no ill will.

 

[buler]

google images: fedora = the answer

I've been saying that all along.... [huh]

 

[mayserwegener]

Robert's (RLK) views are based on historical info and are as close as one will get to a defining a Fedora (from 1883 ->) .

 

[John in Covina]

I am just wondering if the definition can change over time or is it set in stone?

 

[Feraud]

The term is fluid, we are not.

 

[Undertow]

The term is fluid, we are not.

Well, scientists say we're between 65-78% water, after all. lol

 

[Feraud]

I stand corrected!

 

[mayserwegener]

Robert's (RLK's) final post sums it up nicely (in my opinion).

 

[John in Covina]

fftopic: One problem is with written word what might be said in jest and in humor does not always come across as such when read off of the screen.

Let's not get into a one upsmanship tussle here, I know that i have been overly sensative and other times dumped on someone that I thought had unfairly given me a hard time. In the end it creates ill will, wastes time and efforts.

 

[Lefty]

The term is fluid, we are not.

That's what I'm looking at with this thread. I have a hard time believing that anyone here would consider all of these, if any, fedoras. The term was, apparently, created by one hat, and used casually in marketing. To me, it's similar to "juice drink", which may or may not contain juice, but has a bit of juice flavor. Hats like the ones below have a fedora flavor, but I don't think I'd call any of them a fedora - well, maybe the third one. Now my head hurts.

I love this thread.

 

[Undertow]

fftopic: One problem is with written word what might be said in jest and in humor does not always come across as such when read off of the screen.

Let's not get into a one upsmanship tussle here, I know that i have been overly sensative and other times dumped on someone that I thought had unfairly given me a hard time. In the end it creates ill will, wastes time and efforts.

Quite right! :arated:

 

[Undertow]

I think RLK nailed it with his list of definitions.

I think it's a good idea to have a comprehensive, tentative definition of fedoras anyway because it's handy when explaining it to those interested in our lids.

I know I've been wearing a homburg and had someone ask where I found "that weird fedora". lol

On the other hand, I wore a pair of spectators one summer and a guy asked "where'd you get them wingtips"?

God - how do you define wingtips? Or any style for that matter?

 

[jlee562]

Tapered Crown(amount and direction secondary)--excludes the above hats again as well as caps,buckets, head scarves, beanies some Asian forms. Not generally spherical or predominantly cylindrical.
--Center Crease is fundamental to its origins and excludes some of the same hats again as well as some Western forms. Porkpies pre-date the Fedora as do rounded or Open Crown and really don't qualify. Without some crease restrictions-every hat body with a brim break becomes a Fedora.
Clearly there is some gray area as some creases with rounded center portions derive from a combination of the two.

While I would agree with everything else, I would have to take issue with the tapered crown. The Indiana Jones hat (which as always been referenced as a fedora) has a stovepipe crown with no taper (at least it does in Raiders and Crystal Skull and most scenes in Last Crusade).

 

[mayserwegener]

While I would agree with everything else, I would have to take issue with the tapered crown. The Indiana Jones hat (which as always been referenced as a fedora) has a stovepipe crown with no taper (at least it does in Raiders and Crystal Skull and most scenes in Last Crusade).

From RLK's post -> "Tapered Crown (amount and direction secondary)".

 

[John in Covina]

I think that regarding the taper question there are examples of "fedoras" from the 1920's and 30's that have a reverse taper and most of us would definately regard them as fedoras.

 

[jlee562]

From RLK's post -> "Tapered Crown (amount and direction secondary)".

No, I understand what was written. But a stovepipe crown, such as the Indiana Jones hat, does not have taper. Under the definition as worded, such a hat would be excluded from the definition. However, I would regard the Fed IV and their ilk to be fedoras. However the defining characteristic of such hats is a distinct lack of taper; they therefore cannot be considered "tapered crown(s)."

 

[mayserwegener]

If you looked at them open crown you woud see a bit of taper (see block -> front to back & side to side) but with a deep center crease they can even take on a reverse taper (front to back).