Italian Duel From 1922, Lots Of Hats!

[mayserwegener]

Duel between Aurelio Greco (sport fencing master) and Candido Sassone. Duels like this would happen even though they were against law (at least they were eventually). Lots of great hats!

[video=youtube;9BUeZv_TfAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BUeZv_TfAs[/video]

Some French duels with Fedoras on.

1913

[video=youtube;vybUtd4GOnU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vybUtd4GOnU[/video]

[video=youtube;Ly6mPSppa0U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly6mPSppa0U[/video]

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

Those french guys were duelling with fedoras on!
As for the italians, you probably know better than me Aurelio Greco's fame...
well I have somewhere in my house an old handbook about fencing, published in 1900 something (1903?) of some maestro Masiello, which is the only training in fencing I ever took;
there are some interesting features in it (he never speaks about sport fencing, but only of duels; unluckily I miss the second volume on sabre, more military-oriented) and never speaks of "foil" but only of "sword"
(foil being the tool to academically train the use of sword).

Ciao!

 

[monbla256]

Interesting clips. The Italian one was really interesting in that all the hats had very tall crowns on them. Was this an Italian style thing of the 20's ? Also, NONE of the enclosed sedans had rear windows nor could I see evidnce of any sort of mirrors either side or windshield mounted on the cars. Must have been a lot of fun driving back then

 

[Yeps]

The book "On Fencing" by Aldo Nadi contains an anecdote of one of these kind of duels. It is interesting to hear the hear about it from the perspective of a sport fencer. Apparently the technique is very different.

 

[Feraud]

Classical fencing is very different from the sport version. The prior uses techniques focusing on the idea of using a live blade and to defend yourself. Sport fencing evolved into a sport based on earning points. There are differences in technique, speed, tempo, blade characteristics, etc.

After you watch these videos compare to modern sport fencing. The modern fencers rush at each other to score a touch. This is very different from the postures, parries, ripostes, etc. of real duels.

I miss my old fencing salle..

 

[mayserwegener]

Yeps, Yes dueling is very different. In sport fencing you can score a touch and still get hit. In a duel you need to hit and not be hit. You should check out Aldo Nadi's autobiography "The Living Sword". Nadi was a real character and an amazing fencer for his time period.

Italian-Wiseguy, I have been a sport fencer (sabre) for 35 years and competed nationally (2007 US Sabre National Champion Age 40-49) and internationally. I have met Edurado Mangiarotti (now 91 years old) who is the most decorated Italian Olympic sportman. I also met and took some lessons from his brother Dario who died a few months ago and was still giving lessons into his 90s. Edurado still has a fencing club in downtown Milano. I do know Greco was considered one of he greatest fencing masters of his time. There were still duels taking place so that knowledge was still around. They are using epee like swords which is the most duel like weapon of modern sport fencing.

Monbla256, Yes a bunch of high crowns. The one with the back bow (2.40) is way up there. I see a lot of taper and some shorter brims too.

 

[zetwal]

Fascinating stuff. And yes, that's quite a showing of choice Italian hats.

 

[mayserwegener]

Also you don't see any Bowlers. All them are soft felt hats.

 

[hatophile]

Cool hats.

Was there a "point" to these duels? ie, someone's honor maligned? Or were they just to demonstrate the individual fencer's ability?

 

[Tomasso]

Was there a "point" to these duels? ie, someone's honor maligned? Or were they just to demonstrate the individual fencer's ability?

The duel between Greco and Sassone (top vid) stemmed from a difference of opinion about fencing theory. And it lasted six months, over seven different venues......

 

[hatophile]

Did someone eventually win? Maybe the loser would get his hat sliced in two?

 

[mayserwegener]

The duel between Greco and Sassone (top vid) stemmed from a difference of opinion about fencing theory. And it lasted six months, over seven different venues......

Yes that was fairly common. Aldo Nadi fought a similar duel for his father (also a great fencing master) who had a run in with a Hungarian fencing master. Nadi describes what happened along with some other duels (not related to fencing) in his autobiography "The Living Sword" and in "On Fencing".

Did someone eventually win? Maybe the loser would get his hat sliced in two?

They usually went to first blood and not to the death. Unless there was a mistake. Not sure the final outcome of this one. I believe Greco won this encounter. I am not really up on the fencing / dueling history stuff.

Classical fencing is very different from the sport version. The prior uses techniques focusing on the idea of using a live blade and to defend yourself. Sport fencing evolved into a sport based on earning points. There are differences in technique, speed, tempo, blade characteristics, etc.

After you watch these videos compare to modern sport fencing. The modern fencers rush at each other to score a touch. This is very different from the postures, parries, ripostes, etc. of real duels.

I miss my old fencing salle..

The masters in the first duel were both sport fencing oriented. Aldo Nadi explains the difference between the duel and sport fencing in his books. Modern sport fencing is much different from sport fencing of the early 20th century. It became much more athletic in the 1950s (see the Soviets). Also the introduction of electric scoring had a major impact.

 

[hatophile]

Interesting stuff, even beyond the hat styles. Thanks for the show, Mayser, and comments
gentlemen.

 

[Dreispitz]

Cool links, Steve!

Here is a link to some more information, historical manuals, etc. on historical fencing styles. Smallsword, backsword and pugilism.

 

[CopperNY]

great links, thank you. things you never thought to look for on YouTube.....

i do historical rapier, focusing on Agrippa (with some George Silver training), but i've always had the itch for a first blood or mensur challenge.

 

[Das Broetchen]

Interesting clips. The Italian one was really interesting in that all the hats had very tall crowns on them. Was this an Italian style thing of the 20's ?

As i could see theese tall crowns in several german movies from the 20's (i.e. Fritz Langs "Dr Mabuse, der Spieler") i would assume that this was a widespread style in europe.

 

[The Good]

These were interesting videos, thank you. I happen to own a rapier (not old, it's a new reproduction I got for a hundred bucks, probably made in China), but I have never taken fencing lessons. It currently sits in my room as a decoration of sorts. The hats in the videos were interesting to look at too.

 

[dhermann1]

Whoa! Wow! Holy schmoley! Amazing stuff!
I happen to be deadly with a bread knife and peanut putter. That's about as dangerous I get with a blade.
Beside the hats, I also noticed a goodly number of Hercule Poirot style mustaches. And of course, that was the day when riding on the running board was in flower!
Totally cool. Thanks for sharing.

 

[mayserwegener]

Barone Arnaldi (Alternate). This is the Back Bow I mentioned!