Is there no end?

[tonyb]

The big entertainment of the day, besides watching the Seattle Superchickens fall to the Steelers, was seeing an Open Road get bid up to 320 bucks and some-odd cents. It's quite distinctive in that it's blue. I once had a Stratoliner that shade, but I've never before seen a blue Open Road. It's of the Royal Stetson variety, size 7 3/8, in apparently real nice condition. But $320? My goodness.
So the question is: What other colors of OR are there, besides silverbelly and a bluish-gray and black? They came in an almost-white hue, too, didn't they? And a tan? Any others I oughta be on the lookout for?

 

[Andykev]

Caveat Emptor

Look. I don't know why you have to bash my team. Which one was it? Oh, the only football I watched in the past two years was tonights game. Oh, and I flipped channels between local "Bay Area Backroads" and the "Weather Channel".
Heck, I lost count of what was happening into the third inning. Er, ...oh, was that the third quarter?, No...when they threw the pass, and the guy ran to third, and the puck hit the ice...and that tall distinguished man jumped in the key...

Yep. I am glad the Ebay price of vintage hats has tipped the scales at obscene. I have about 10 vintage I am selling..not yet listed. I hope to get as much for each. They are pristine...vintage old stock.. Mostly in a size that I cannot wear, as I at first didn't know my true size.

So, if it went for that much, great for the seller. And I hope the buyer is thrilled.

BTW...do you wear a size 7 1/4..?

 

[Feraud]

Some of the prices paid on recent hats are amazing. There seems to be a bit of auction fever happening..
Andykev has the right attitude. If folks are willing to pay the money then someone is going to sell the hat. Hopefully everyone is happy.

 

[budward]

Yes, that was a beautiful hat, best I could tell from the pictures. Once it got to about 87 bux, I lost interest except to tune in to see how much it'd go for. I've never seen a blue one, either. I have one in a light tan or buckskin, which I'm not sure if it's one of the colors you mentioned, but the ones I've seen are mostly silverbelly. Anyway, someone out there just got a really nice lid. And a substantially lighter wallet.

 

[Kaleponi Craig]

Wow, well I don't feel so bad spending less than half that on an older Open Road last week...KC

 

[Wolf]

Yeah, I've been trying for a gray fedora on ebay. Lost 2 because the prices just went way higher then what I thought they should be. And I have a small head, so the selection on ebay is limited.

 

[Solid Citizen]

The $320.00 Stetson Open Road

I watched the bidding on that blue/grey Stetson the entire auction period. But a note on the final two bidders:

!. The runner up had recently bought a $3,600.00+ Gibson Les Paul.

2. The winner a $5,000.00 Navy Blue Angels flight suit.

The lesson, if your pockets are that deep whats $320.00.

SC

 

[Cabinetman]

BTW...do you wear a size 7 1/4..?

Me! Me!

No question you should get top dollar on your hats, as I bet they are magnificent. Any chance you could show them to us here first? I mean not necessarily offer to sell here first, I just mean give us a little looksee?

Thanks for considering.

Cab

 

[photobyalan]

Yeah, I've been trying for a gray fedora on ebay. Lost 2 because the prices just went way higher then what I thought they should be. And I have a small head, so the selection on ebay is limited.

I had to laugh when I read that. I've also been looking for a gray fedora for some time now and didn't get them because the prices have gone too high. I keep lamenting my large head because all the hats going cheaply are in smaller sizes! I guess the grass is no greener on the other side of the fence.

 

[EricH]

This insanity (who says large heads hold big brains) reminds me of hunting for vintage "stuff" for restoration work. The prices got crazy as the recreational collectors got into it, but the upside was that it created a huge reproduction market. The "new" old stuff, nostalgia aside, was as good or better than the old. So maybe these prices will bring more good pelts to the market and hat makers to the trade and in the end we can buy the hats we love, albeit without a particular manufacturers stamp on the band. Eric (Waxing philosophically or desperately rationalizing why he can't bid on all the hats he wants with all the "big heads" at the lounge driving up the prices)

 

[epic610]

It all balances out

i have small feet and wear a size 8D shoe. I buy lots of shoes on ebay ...allen edmonds, gucci, prada ....for under $40. so, what i save on shoes allows me to buy brand new hats.

 

[Snrbfshn]

I believe the buyer is a Lounge member...

Unless my memory is off, it's one of our folks who nailed the blue Open Road. And more power to him, since the fella he beat is one of the principal culprits in pushing prices on the 3/8s.

And, yessiree, Andykev, I'm a 7 1/4 and certainly interested in what you might be offering.

 

[Wolf]

I had to laugh when I read that. I've also been looking for a gray fedora for some time now and didn't get them because the prices have gone too high. I keep lamenting my large head because all the hats going cheaply are in smaller sizes! I guess the grass is no greener on the other side of the fence.

The same thing happened on ebay with straight razors, I collect them, used to get some great deals on straights in restorable shape. Now the prices have gone through the roof.

 

[tonyb]

I'm right with you on that greener grass thing, Alan. I'm always finding nice old hats in the junktique shops, at almost reasonable prices (somewhere between 25 and 40 dollars, say), but they're either size 7 or 6 7/8.
A person could rationalize that an old blue OR in very nice condition is worth $320. He could compare it to what's available in off-the-shelf hats today. But I won't be joining in that kind of action because, 1) I can't afford to, and 2) I'd rather get a new, 100 percent beaver felt custom for less money. That way, I'd be sure to get a hat that fits, there would be no doubt as to what I was buying, and I'd be doing my part to keep the custom-hat makers in the trade.
I can already hear the cries of, "But they just don't make felt as good as they used to." Well, I don't have enough expertise to dispute that. I can even support that contention, at least anecdotally. But my little bit of reading indicates that one significant difference between the fine old felts and the newer ones is that mercury nitrate was used back in the day, in a process called "carroting." If my sources are reliable, mercury hasn't been used (in the U.S., anyway) since the early 1940s, when occupational health concerns put an end to it. And most of these "vintage" lids fetching these high prices were made after then, dontcha s'pose? If I were to hazard a guess, it would be that that $320 blue OR was made in the late 1950s.
Are there other factors that necessarily make 50-year-old felts better than what can be manufactured today? Are these new, all-beaver felts from Portugal comparable (or even better) than the higher-quality felts made 50 years ago?
I'm not looking to be "right," gents; I'm just looking to learn. Whatever enlightenment can be gained here would be welcome.

 

[Feraud]

The ironic thing about the high Ebay prices is if you are the buyer you will cringe. If you are the seller.... it's all good!

 

[John in Covina]

Rarity for BLUE?

One thing that several have mentioned is the blue color was very much not the normal color you see. So, if there are thousands of Tan & Grey Open Roads for every blue one, then the rarity of the color makes it a higher demand. (That is if blue is in demand.)

Also there is the "gotta have it" syndrome and the "I'm not losing this to anybody" pride disease, or the biddders could have been drunk, which exascerbates these debilitating judgement disabilities...

Go Blue!

 

[photobyalan]

The strange thing is that prices are not always high. I got a really nice Knox fedora a couple weeks ago for 25 bucks. I saw a nice-looking gray Homburg go unsold at $25 last night. Sometimes there's just no telling which hat is going to set off a bidding war.

 

[tonyb]

Right again, Alan. I got a sweet, sweet 1957-vintage Stetson Twenty just a week or so ago for all of $19.99, plus postage and insurance. I was the ONLY bidder. Thing is, it isn't a style I (and lots of others, it seems) would normally go after, which goes some way toward explaining why it attracted so little interest. And the seller didn't do herself any favors in her description, either. Now that it's here, on my noggin as I type this, I'm quite pleased with my purchase. So I'll continue visiting that famous online auction site, but I'll bid only when it appears I can get what all of us would consider a good deal. There must be millions (hundreds of thousands, anyway) of nice old hats still in existence, and I'll get my share of 'em cheap or I won't get 'em at all. (Understanding, of course, that "cheap" is always relative.)
And John, you nailed it with that "gotta have it" observation. A person will never get a bargain if he leaves a seller with the impression that his happiness hinges on walking out the door with that new whatever. Unfortunately, that doesn't do a person much good in an auction setting, where he has no control over the other bidders.

 

[feltfan]

The ironic thing about the high Ebay prices is if you are the buyer you will cringe. If you are the seller.... it's all good!

Actually, not always. As we know, people selling hats on
eBay rarely know what they are selling. That's good for the
buyer when we can snatch up something nice by identifying,
often through terrible photos, a treasure, and paying peanuts.

But when the stakes are high let the buyer and seller beware.
If I pay over $100 (or heaven forbid, over $200) I'm going to
be cross if the "like new" or "perfect" hat arrives with surprise
moth bites or a crumbly sweat band. eBay is very poorly
prepared for such disputes.

 

[Fedora]

Are there other factors that necessarily make 50-year-old felts better than what can be manufactured today? Are these new, all-beaver felts from Portugal comparable (or even better) than the higher-quality felts made 50 years ago?
I'm not looking to be "right," gents; I'm just looking to learn. Whatever enlightenment can be gained here would be welcome.

Ah, a niche here for a personal opinion. I think when you get into the vintage blends, it just does not get any better. Why? I dunno, but just assume that since it is indeed an artful thing, this blending of various furs to arrive at a great looking felt, the oldtimers had it down pat. They were better at producing this sort of felt, with, or without mercury. I also understand, the mercury actually gave the finished felt a particular "feel" that was highly desirable. It as as much about the feel, as it was about any "felting" characteristics of the mercury.(although the use of mercury supposedly yielded a tighter, denser rabbit felt).

Now beaver felt, I think is different. Since beaver felt is basically a pure felt,(although a small percentage of hare may be used), the art of blending is not as essential. Beaver fur just makes for a tight, dense, and very fine felt, and is not influenced by as many factors as the traditional blends. I know there is some contention, on whether blends are actually better felt for dress hats, and I am in the camp that says beaver is the best, hands down, for any hat. The reason blends were introduced was nothing more than an economic move. They are cheaper to buy(for the feltmaker) as beaver is the primo hatters fur, and is priced accordingly. So, I think the blended fur reached a high artform, and that occured in the era when hats were worn by almost everyone. I can look at vintage beaver hats and new beaver hats(using true beaver dress felt) and I cannot see much of a difference, unlike the blended variety. And that is why, I started off using pure beaver bodies. They were as close as I could get when compared to the vintage beaver bodies. Very little difference. I figured this was a good thing.

I have yet to see a bad beaver body, new beaver that is, although I have heard of a bad one or two over the last few years. But, I seriously doubt if these bodies were actually pure beaver. See, one thing that you discover if you start making hats, and sourcing felts, is not every feltmaker is an honest guy. Or, not every hatter is an honest guy. To the general public, who knows nothing of felt, it is easy to sell a fellow a cheap poorly felted hat, containing only a half a pinch of beaver fur, or non at all, and call it pure beaver!! I have never personally seen a poorly felted pure beaver body. I do not think you can poorly felt pure beaver fur, as it "felts" better than any other fur. Now other furs do not do this as readily, and have to be helped out more. Now, I am certainly no expert, but I have worked with rabbit, blended furs, and pure beaver furs, and the ease of making a hat from pure beaver says alot to me about the various felts. Where I am still amazed, and puzzled is how Borasalino could take a blend, or even rabbit, and make a felt that had the same feel and characteristics as pure beaver!! I am talking about the really old Borsalino felt here. They succeeded in producing a cheaper felt(at least in fur), that mimiced the pure beaver feel, and they did it very well. But, that was what they, and other hatters were attempting to do. Make it look and feel like the pricey pure beaver, but at a fraction of the price. Fedora