Is serge shiny?

[Fidena]

I've seen pictures of navy serge, and it looks almost as if it's shiny. I've seen old suits advertised as serge, and now it's in my head that people wore shiny suits.

 

[Yeps]

My impression of serge is that it gets shiny with wear, so that there would be a slight shininess to the elbows etc.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I've seen pictures of navy serge, and it looks almost as if it's shiny. I've seen old suits advertised as serge, and now it's in my head that people wore shiny suits.

Serge is not shiny when new. Yeps is correct about the elbow-rubbing (and derriere-sitting). Furthermore, serge becomes shiny after repeated direct pressings with a hot iron. "Blue serge suits" were the 1900s equivalent of the "grey flannel suits" of the 1950s: ubiquitous, functional, and middle-class respectable. Shiny serge suits were seen as marks of poor housekeeping, or of an obsolete closet.

 

[Tomasso]

"Blue serge suits" .

[video=youtube;46fHJYLMZsc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46fHJYLMZsc[/video]

 

[filfoster]

My impression of serge is that it gets shiny with wear, so that there would be a slight shininess to the elbows etc.

I have several 'ubiquitous' blue serge suits and they are a decidedly dull finish when new, but as the other posts suggest, do develop a sheen with wear. I am not acquainted with how poor housekeeping contributes to this, since repeated dry cleanings only make the sheen worse. What can be done to maintain the desirable dull sheen, besides discarding the suits, particularly the trousers, and buying new?

 

[avedwards]

Serge is not shiny when new. Yeps is correct about the elbow-rubbing (and derriere-sitting). Furthermore, serge becomes shiny after repeated direct pressings with a hot iron. "Blue serge suits" were the 1900s equivalent of the "grey flannel suits" of the 1950s: ubiquitous, functional, and middle-class respectable. Shiny serge suits were seen as marks of poor housekeeping, or of an obsolete closet.

I thought flannel was good at not becoming shiny even when well worn? If serge becomes shiny with wear surely it would make more sense to simply wear a blue flannel suit.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

since repeated dry cleanings only make the sheen worse.

after repeated direct pressings with a hot iron.

Maybe your dry cleaners just press them too hot?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I am not acquainted with how poor housekeeping contributes to this, ...

Before the advent of dry cleaning, people tended to brush and press their suits at home. By "poor housekeeping", I was referring to the hard pressing of a very hot iron directly onto the serge fabric, with no protective 'buffer' cloth (i.e., a piece of lightweight flannel) placed between the iron and the serge.

 

[Salieri]

The shininess on serge is created in two slightly different ways. When the cloth goes shiny from length of use, this is because the fabric has been worn down to a smooth finish by abrasion, like it's been polished. There's not much you can do about it - though a very, very fine sandpaper or emery board can partially eliminate the sheen - it's fairly temporary and it's not actually restoring the condition of the fabric. If the suit comes back shiny from the laundry, while this can be a sign of wear as well, it's usually caused simply by the finbres in the weave being pressed flat to a smooth finish.

This happened to a 1930s suit of mine quite recently so I did some research on how to restore the nap. Having read a fair amount from various sources I settled on generously steaming the suit on a hanger with a tiny bit of vinegar in the water (I don't know what this is actually supposed to do, but I read it in several places and just went with it) and giving it a fairly firm brush with a relatively stiff-bristled clothes brush. In places where the sheen was more persistent, I dabbed on some heavily diluted vinegar and very gentle passed an emery board over the fabric. Once it was all dried out, the shine had been pretty much eliminated.

I thought flannel was good at not becoming shiny even when well worn? If serge becomes shiny with wear surely it would make more sense to simply wear a blue flannel suit.

I don't know for sure, but I would imagine for the same reason anybody wears delicate fabric. Serge does look good and flannel, much as I love it, looks fairly rustic and hard-wearing by comparison. I suppose further to that, because serge is not hugely durable, a serge suit in good condition would give the impression of being able to afford to replace your wardrobe more regularly. We're also talking about a time when suiting cloth was a huge growth industry. Manufacturers put a lot of effort into developing new lines and experimenting with finish and durability. Looking at catalogues from the late 20s - 40s (more so British than American I guess), cloth brands are usually given pretty much star billing above things like style and cut. It's hardly surprising that what might have been thought of as the go-to cloth for everyday suiting one year could have fallen out of favour by the next.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

By 1930, the blue serge suit --once a symbol of middle-class American respectability-- was perceived by city folk as a 'go to town' outfit for country bumpkins and the hopelessly out-of-touch. To wear a blue serge suit in the '30s was to be a hick, an oldtimer, or both.

 

[Salieri]

By 1930, the blue serge suit --once a symbol of middle-class American respectability-- was perceived by city folk as a 'go to town' outfit for country bumpkins and the hopelessly out-of-touch. To wear a blue serge suit in the '30s was to be a hick, an oldtimer, or both.

Interesting. I guess that could be an American thing, or possibly entirely a class thing. In the UK in the early C20th, the wholesale bespoke industry, which was clothing the vast majority of men at the time through the likes of Hepworths and Burtons, was heavily marketing serge suiting right through the 1930s. A lot of clothing history is based on what the richest and most fashionable of the day were wearing, though, and obviously that only represents a trifling minority, however influential their tastes may have been. I don't know enough to say, however, whether the enduring popularity of serge was restricted to the UK, or whether your hicks and old-timers were a contemporary fashion writer's idea of a mere ordinary person.

 

[dhermann1]

Wasn't there a time when having a shiny serge suit was declasse personified? Like having a matching tie and hanky?
I know the idea of the blue serge suit persisted a long time. On the old John Forsythe show of the 50's, "Bachelor Father", it was a running gag whenever his house boy got fed up, he would put on his "blue serge good bye forever suit", and storm out of the house with packed suitcases.

 

[filfoster]

Before the advent of dry cleaning, people tended to brush and press their suits at home. By "poor housekeeping", I was referring to the hard pressing of a very hot iron directly onto the serge fabric, with no protective 'buffer' cloth (i.e., a piece of lightweight flannel) placed between the iron and the serge.

Marc, thanks, I do get that. I have done that to garments and it is a painful experience. My mother tipped me off to that buffering cloth. A thin 'tea towel' has spared this result since.

 

[Tomasso]

I like a pressing cloth that you can see through.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

GIVE ME A WILD TIE, BROTHER! (A song from 1915. Yes, you read the date right.)


Some may long for the soothing touch of lavender, cream or rose,
But the tie I wear must possess the glare of a red-hot kitchen stove.
The books I read, and the life I lead, are sensible, sane, and mild.
I like calm hats and I don't wear spats, but I want my neckties wild!

Give me a wild tie, brother: one with a cosmic urge!
A tie that will swear, and rip and tear, when it sees my tame blue serge.
Oh, some will say that a gent's cravat should be only seen, not heard,
But I want a tie that will make men cry, and render their vision blurred!

I yearn --I long-- for a tie so strong, It will take two men to tie it.
If such there be, just show it to me. Whatever the price, I'll buy it!
Give me a wild tie, brother: one with a lot of sins!
A tie that will blaze in a hectic haze, down where the vest begins!

 

[Dinerman]

And who can forget the Richard Diamond Episode "The Blue Serge Suit"?

 

[Fidena]

GIVE ME A WILD TIE, BROTHER! (A song from 1915. Yes, you read the date right.)


Some may long for the soothing touch of lavender, cream or rose,
But the tie I wear must possess the glare of a red-hot kitchen stove.
The books I read, and the life I lead, are sensible, sane, and mild.
I like calm hats and I don't wear spats, but I want my neckties wild!

Give me a wild tie, brother: one with a cosmic urge!
A tie that will swear, and rip and tear, when it sees my tame blue serge.
Oh, some will say that a gent's cravat should be only seen, not heard,
But I want a tie that will make men cry, and render their vision blurred!

I yearn --I long-- for a tie so strong, It will take two men to tie it.
If such there be, just show it to me. Whatever the price, I'll buy it!
Give me a wild tie, brother: one with a lot of sins!
A tie that will blaze in a hectic haze, down where the vest begins!

I love it! :eusa_clap

 

[Tomasso]

Here are some century old tips for freshening a serge suit.



http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F70910FA3D5517738DDDA80B94DD405B888CF1D3