Is Paris Hilton the modern day flapper?

[Fletch]

Oh, those folks know the teachings they follow. They just don't bother with those they don't follow. [angel]

Can we possibly get back to talking about bimbos?

 

[Paisley]

That goes both ways. A great many Christians who loudly tout their faith also seem to lack a basic knowledge of the teachings they're claiming to follow. They pick their few favorites stories or verses and ignore the others.

Yes. But my point was about *rejecting* a tradition one knows little about.

And yes, Fletch, I think that makes a person an intellectual bimbo.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Just a precautionary word before anyone decides to get out of hand, let's not turn this thread into a debate over Christianity-as-it-is-practiced. As far as I can see, flappers weren't especially involved with religion, and this discussion shouldn't be either.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Housewives and stay-at-home moms say they take a lot of flak; probably a lot of other traditional people do too.

I am a stay at home dad. It's just me and my 3 yo boy. I get a lot of flack and yes I get stoned as well.

Can we please get back to my idol [huh]

 

[Paisley]

Just a precautionary word before anyone decides to get out of hand, let's not turn this thread into a debate over Christianity-as-it-is-practiced. As far as I can see, flappers weren't especially involved with religion, and this discussion shouldn't be either.

I just used it as an example. I guess it was a bad one. [huh]

 

[LizzieMaine]

I just used it as an example. I guess it was a bad one. [huh]

Not a problem -- just don't want to see an interesting discussion get sidetracked, which happens too quickly when the r-word gets brought into things.

 

[Fletch]

Paris gots some cute dogs.

 

[cherry lips]

cherry lips, it really depends on who from the 20's you compare it with - and who today. But I see how your dichotomy fits when you compare Paris Hilton with Clara Bow.
Other than that, I don't really think it holds up. Only some points, and even then, only somewhat. I know I'm being very postmodern here, but this type of dichotomizing easily distresses me.

Sorry if my dichotomy distresses you! I think Paris Hilton epitomizes today's youth culture and beauty (+material) ideals. I certainly don't hate her, like most modern celebrities in the tabloids she simply doesn't interest me. Obviously I was generalizing, sorry to bore you.

Clara Bow wasn't considered glamorous or classy -- she was hot stuff, with the same kind of scandal often surrounding her that surrounds PH.

And the preferred body type for flappers wasn't short and fleshy -- thin and boyish was considered the ideal.

I'm aware I have certain difficulties taking my modern glasses off completely. When I wrote glamour vs trash I was thinking of Paris sweatpants that show a bit more of her anatomy than one would wish, and the amazing fact that a millionaire would wear the same clothes as trailer trash/ somebody sweating in the gym (on television no less!).
As for the boyish type: Yes it was an ideal, as clearly seen in fashion illustrations. However, check out Clara Bow's thighs in The Wild Party, or look at news reels with real girls or the most popular stars of the day. They were youthful, and their breasts were small, but they still had some curves you could glimpse under their skirts or by enjoying they're cuddly nude arms.
Examples:

Greta Garbo pre-Hollywood diet (second pic, far right)

Helen Kane

Betty Boop

I am no 20s expert, but I still have my personal theories.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Work hard she does. The dogs have to held in her arms, she has to smile and ummmm....... oh yea she has to comb her hair. [huh]

She is who she is. It is not her fault. Every generation has a "Paris" type roaming around having fun. Nothing wrong with that. She is my hero.

 

[Kadri]

I agree with cherry lips.

 

[Feraud]

See,my theory is that no mattter how scandalous and 'trashy' stars from the 20's or 30's might have been,they were still far,far above today's trashy stars.

Yes,both Clara Bow and Paris Hilton are pretty scandalous material,but really Clara was cute as a button and not a bit stupid,no matter what she might or might not have done, while Paris Hilton...is Paris Hilton.

Being a drunkard, depraved, or and sexual scandals can be justified depending on how cute or smart someone is? I am referring to any celebrity or any era and not only the ones noted above. The rationale stated above sounds ludicrous.

 

[Feraud]

Oh come on. Don't play the martyr. This is a discussion. Let's discuss.
Is the judgement of how "trashy" someone is really dependent on how cute they are or how nice their clothes are?
I am simply reacting to your statment.
If someone equated a modern day crime spree with the likes of Bonnie and Clyde I should hope we would not accept one and not the other based on their clothes or cuteness.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

See,my theory is that no mattter how scandalous and 'trashy' stars from the 20's or 30's might have been,they were still far,far above today's trashy stars.

Lindsay Lohan, Brittany Spears, Paris etc etc. No different than the drunkards, the scandalous and depraved in any point in history. The only difference is information technology.

VH1 has a show called "Celebrity Sober House" or some thing to that effect. During the 20's and 30's the social mores were possibly different. The publicity protection the stars received was part of a very powerful public relations machine.

I just cannot buy into the idea that a drunken Clara Bow vomiting into my lap is more classy than a drunken Paris vomiting into my lap.

Who knows maybe it's my aversion to getting puked on.[huh]

 

[dhermann1]

This will remain a fun thread if we don't take it too seriously. I have nothing significant to contribute, other that that I agree with everybody.
Kadri: Estonia!!! That's so cool. This is why I love the Lounge.

 

[Kadri]

And yet somehow I did not mention puking drunks anywhere or justify drinking and casual sex.If anything I oppose to those things.

Well,anyway...I'll steer clear from this part of the forum from now on seeing as I don't like words being put in my mouth.

I deleted my posts,too.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

And yet somehow I did not mention puking drunks anywhere or justify drinking and casual sex.If anything I oppose to those things.

Well,anyway...I'll steer clear from this part of the forum from now on seeing as I don't like words being put in my mouth.

I deleted my posts,too.

Kadri no you did not. I did. It is merely an observation.

The observation is in my above post. Celebrities and stars are not afforded the same publicity protection they were at one time.

 

[reetpleat]

I think, for whatever it's worth, that the closest heirs to the flappers would be the modern "indie kids." The flapper culture wasn't as closely defined by music as the modern sub-cultures seem to be, but there was, in the beginning at least, the same note of intellectual curiosity. It wasn't for nothing that flappers were sometimes called "bright young things." And the "indie kids" i've known -- my niece, for one -- seem to be much more interested in making a difference in the world around them than in getting smashed and smoking dope. They tend, in fact, to take a pretty dim view of "stoners."

I think the whole indie kid is just another trend, with a few leaders, most of whom are rehashing older trends and not being that original, and a lot of even less independant followers.

On the same note, I think outside of a handful of elites, the whole flapper and their equivilent guys of the jazz age were just trend followers too. It was fashionable for young men to talk in brief, terse phrases emulating hemmingway. I suspect I would find most jazz era youngsters frightfully deliberate, pretentious and vacuous. But I might have enjoyed Paris in the 20s or hanging out with hemingway or Fitzgerald.

I would probably like to hang out with Brad Pitt too, but probably not paris Hilton.

As far as her beign the moden equivilent, I think the case can be made. But the whole reason we are here is that we don't like the way things are done now as much as how they were done then. Saying she is the modern equivilent does not mean much to me.

 

[reetpleat]

Just my thoughts and I have not had my coffee yet :

History repeats itself, for sure. But I would say there are still independent thinkers that refuse to go along with up the norm. For instance, people who refuse to get corporate jobs and choose to live out their lives as travelers or artists....I have some friends who have done this and sacrificed relationships with their families and communites by doing so.
Also...The whole notion of gay union being biologically acceptable is coming around again, and we all know that has been a touchy subject. I'd say that has been fairly radical...they are a huge community, at least here in Seattle.

If we are talking about celebrities thinking outside the box, the first people who come to mind are Bono (refusing to pay Irish taxes so he can throw most of his money into the African effort...this is a controversial subject, to be sure) and Angelina Jolie as a UN Ambassador carrying out all of her humantarian efforts, while playing the Hollywood machine. In her earlier heyday she was a wild child fashionista too...but now she presents herself as classy and extremely well read.

As far as Hilton hiding her intellect behind a mask of "duh" I have seen too many interviews with her that say otherwise, in my opinion...if she was that good of an actress, her films would have done better and she would been cast in Streep-esque roles.

Fashionwise? Yes, I could see her as setting fashion trends, but she does not have the education or class that my grandmother did in the 20's.

I hardly think wandering gypsies, artists, travellers are all that unique and ground breaking. It is just another trend as far as I am concerned. Back in the 20s or 60s or 50s perhaps it was more of an independant act. Now it is just another thing to do. If they want to do it, great. Fine. But I am not going to consider them any more unique or interesting for it.

I may find someone just as interesting doing something cool in the corporate world, or in hollywood, or wherever they choose to be.

 

[reetpleat]

I guess a lot is how you define the flapper.

I would certainly say that she is a modern it girl. But then again, i am not so into modern. I will stick with my vintage it girls.

 

[Paisley]

I hardly think wandering gypsies, artists, travellers are all that unique and ground breaking. It is just another trend as far as I am concerned. Back in the 20s or 60s or 50s perhaps it was more of an independant act. Now it is just another thing to do. If they want to do it, great. Fine. But I am not going to consider them any more unique or interesting for it.

I may find someone just as interesting doing something cool in the corporate world, or in hollywood, or wherever they choose to be.

Thanks for saying what I was trying to say.