Is my G-1 mouton real?

[Cob]

I just received my first vintage G-1, a 7823C-series Star Sportswear. The leather is in immaculate condition with excellent grain, and the fit is spot on.

Just a question concerning the collar - is this real mouton? The seller listed it as synthetic - this sounded erroneous given the contract specs and may stem from the seemingly new condition of the collar. I must admit, I was not expecting the fur to be this soft or have such a rich shine - these could just be qualities inherent of mouton in such immaculate condition.

If a few of you could lend a keen eye to these photos, I would be very grateful!

 

[Atticus Finch]

Its real but it isn't original to the jacket. If it were an original mouton collar, it would either be dark brown and soft, or curly and honey colored. But it wouldn't be honey colored and soft.

AF

 

[Cob]

Its real but it isn't original to the jacket. If it were an original mouton collar, it would either be dark brown and soft, or curly and honey colored. But it wouldn't be honey colored and soft.

AF

That may just be an issue with the harsh lighting and shine. Under normal light, it looks more like deep rust/russet shade one would expect to find on a 7823C.

Is there a surefire way to spot a collar replacement? I don't see any extra stitch holes on the leather or lining.

 

[pipvh]

Burn a few strands and see what happens.

 

[Big J]

Its real but it isn't original to the jacket. If it were an original mouton collar, it would either be dark brown and soft, or curly and honey colored. But it wouldn't be honey colored and soft.

AF

Please, if you don' mind an off topic question, which series of G-1's were Vietnam era? I think the E series. Is that correct?

 

[andyfalzon]

It's real and very good quality.

 

[pipvh]

Andy's right, btw: there's no way that's anything but top quality real (as the grandson of a Greek furrier, I'm pretty certain of it).

 

[robrinay]

Please, if you don' mind an off topic question, which series of G-1's were Vietnam era? I think the E series. Is that correct?

The Vietnam years - officially at least if Wikipedia is to be believed were 1954 to 1975 so any of the following would have been used there
MIL-J-7823E(AS) 1971,
MIL-J-7823D(WP) 1966,
MIL-J-7823C (WEP) 1962,
MIL-J-7823B(WEP)1960,
MIL-J-7823A(AER) 1961,

And earlier ones on the backs of older members of the military?

 

[Big J]

The Vietnam years - officially at least if Wikipedia is to be believed were 1954 to 1975 so any of the following would have been used there
MIL-J-7823E(AS) 1971,
MIL-J-7823D(WP) 1966,
MIL-J-7823C (WEP) 1962,
MIL-J-7823B(WEP)1960,
MIL-J-7823A(AER) 1961,

And earlier ones on the backs of older members of the military?

That's an awesome list! Thank you VERY much for the information!
I lived in Sheffield for a few years, met Phil Oakey once in a nightclub, and Susan Sully in a wine bar. Happy memories.

 

[Atticus Finch]

Here's the basis for my opinion, but I’ll happily admit that I may be wrong. The mouton collars on new G-1s weren’t honey colored. They were the same color as the jackets...seal brown. Those collars later faded a honey color with years use and exposure to sunlight. But use and sunlight also typically caused the mouton to curl, at least to some degree. So what you would normally expect to see on a used, C-series jacket is a honey-colored, curly mouton collar. If the G-1 were NOS and early D-series or older, one would expect it to have a soft, but still brown, mouton collar. I’ve seen a few such jackets, C-series and older. They were still in their original cardboard boxes and they had plush, dark brown collars.

It turns out that I also have a 1967 C-series Star in my collection. The collar is exactly the same color as the one on the OP's jacket, but there is also noticeable curling of the fur. I'll snap a photo this evening...

AF

 

[Atticus Finch]

The Vietnam years - officially at least if Wikipedia is to be believed were 1954 to 1975 so any of the following would have been used there
MIL-J-7823E(AS) 1971,
MIL-J-7823D(WP) 1966,
MIL-J-7823C (WEP) 1962,
MIL-J-7823B(WEP)1960,
MIL-J-7823A(AER) 1961,

And earlier ones on the backs of older members of the military?

Agreed. Navy leather lasts a long, long time. The M-422, M-422A, 55j14 and all of the 7823s including the early E-series jackets could have seen service during the Vietnam Conflict.

AF

 

[blazerbud]

You have 3 posts. I want to see a photo of you in this G-1. It is size 36, I bet it looks awesome. you can't just show pics of the jacket.

 

[Marv]

I a photo of my mint LW Foster 7823(AER) size 46" from the mid to late 1950's for comparison, you can see the dark auburn colour of the mouton which is very soft and does show a lighter shade depending on which way the fur is brushed and also when in direct sunlight.

 

[AviatorBRZ]

You sir "stole" this jacket from me in a ebay auction past week ... I was the "first loser"... or the second highest bidder in this particulary jacket.
Gentlemans here have said there's no such thing as winning or losing in ebay. But, I'm still trying to convince myself.
Nice Jacket :eusa_clap