Is it okay to be patriotic?

[Lincsong]

Mr. Marc, once again you have placed your talent at multi-tasking to good use.:eusa_clap

In answer to the question of this thread; Absolutely YES!:eusa_clap

 

[Mr. Lucky]

Your next assignment, if you choose:

Coming to understand the difference between PATRIOTISM and NATIONALISM.

Many misconstrue one for the other and it would be good to learn the difference.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Phil, You had to ask!!!!…

First, I must ask that you clarify your terms. Patriotism is word that has so often been misused, as it’s dictionary definition means..”love of country and zealous support of its authority and interests.” Let’s face it, there are patriots in every country on this planet.

I’m always skeptical of terms such as this and whether (I) am one. Does it mean I blindly support our government and our current administration and rally behind their every action without question? Does it mean I love my country so much that I wish this administration out of office so their opponents can quickly fill the void with their our agenda and policies? Does it mean I don’t care who’s in office and what their politics are because “love my country and zealously support it’s authority and it’s interests”?

There is a grassroots effort afoot in our country today, popularly known as the “Patriot Movement”; is that what you mean?…or do you mean the Department of Homeland Security and the U.S.A. Patriot Act? Do you mean just mindless flag waving and mouthing the words of the Pledge of Allegiance? (Allegiance is a good word and perhaps it is better used in the context of this discussion.)

You see it is not a simple question, and it deserves better than a simplistic answer.

I have an allegiance to the founding patriot’s principles as embodied in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States of America. I’m what’s called a “Neo-Jeffersonian Constitutional Fundamentalist” – my allegiance is to those principles and to the free marketplace of ideas in which they thrive. That doesn’t necessarily include the politics, the bureaucracy, or the “authority and interests” of the government.

If the founders and those that fought and died to create this Constitutional Republic were “patriots”, than I am one. If current politicians and bureaucrats that undermine our Constitution and our Bill of Rights are patriots – than I ain’t one!

As a “patriot” I believe it is the duty of every citizen (and citizen in training!!!) to study and learn the Constitution (as our first President advised so long ago!)

Celebrate Constitution Day September 18, 2006
-dixon cannon

 

[Story]

Yes. A thousand times YES.

We are not perfect.

We never have been.

We've made mistakes, some pretty bad.

But we are the best hope for getting it right and if we fail, there's a good chance everyone else will fail with us.

Every American should 'lean forward in the saddle', contribute to the common good, to work for a better tomorrow, to vote for the candidates of your choice.

And never forget the long line that bought us the chance(s) to make that better tomorrow.

 

[Story]

If the founders and those that fought and died to create this Constitutional Republic were “patriots”, than I am one. If current politicians and bureaucrats that undermine our Constitution and our Bill of Rights are patriots – than I ain’t one!

As a “patriot” I believe it is the duty of every citizen (and citizen in training!!!) to study and learn the Constitution (as our first President advised so long ago!)

Celebrate Constitution Day September 18, 2006
-dixon cannon

Indeed. Let me help you help them.
Start here -
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.overview.html

 

[crazylegsmurphy]

Sigh....*shakes head*

I am still amazed after all these years when I hear about or read topics like this. I don't mean any offence, but patriotism is such an Amerian way of thinking. The whole, "If you don't like my country, get out!" is so rediculous to me.

I live in Canada, and I like a lot about it, and I hate a lot about it. Do I think there is some country (besides the U.S.) who will decide to take us over tomorrow...no of course not. My freedom isn't at risk. I'm not afraid of the world. And I don't think everything is perfect and I am quite happy to voice my concerns against my country.

 

[Story]

Sigh....*shakes head*

I am still amazed after all these years when I hear about or read topics like this. I don't mean any offence, but patriotism is such an Amerian way of thinking. The whole, "If you don't like my country, get out!" is so ridiculous to me.

I live in Canada, and I like a lot about it, and I hate a lot about it. Do I think there is some country (besides the U.S.) who will decide to take us over tomorrow...no of course not. My freedom isn't at risk. I'm not afraid of the world. And I don't think everything is perfect and I am quite happy to voice my concerns against my country.

So what makes you think everything you've listed above are traits of American Patriotism?

Unless you're the kind of person that swallows whole every prejudice they're fed by their local media, or the sort of person that embraces stereotypes. In which case, carry on.

 

[The Wolf]

my thoughts, for whatever they're worth

I had not seen the definition of patriotism that Dixon listed.
I used to say I'm patriotic but not into jingoism. Now I need to make sure I know what I'm saying.
I love the United States and the ideals of our forefathers. I respect the post of President and what the flag stands for.
However, I don't always agree with our policies and I don't always like our President. The flag is physically just a piece of cloth but it stands for something more.
One way to help being patriotic (for lack of a better word) for one's country is to travel to other countries. You come back appreciating what your own country has that others don't. It can be as small as decent chocolate or larger, like certain freedoms for your fellow citizens.
Travelling, I believe, also makes you realize what the flag means to you. After being abroad and enjoying a foreign culture you come home and see the flag as you enter the country. It looks like more than a colorful piece of fabric then.
Thank you for letting me share my random thoughts with my fellow U.S. citizens and the citizens of other countries that are part of the Lounge community.

Sincerely,
The Wolf

 

[Miss Crisplock]

I wrote a long and heartfelt message, and then promptly lost it.

Short version: Yes. It is not only commendable, but an important part of my make up.

I view those who are not patriotic as I do teenagers that criticize thier own families: a bit dog-in-the-manger.

Having lived in Canada (and it is a lovely country) it is my experience that it is special and lovely to come home. As we are all here by choice, and free to leave at any time to any country willing to take us, if I don't understand staying in a place you hate.

If one would not stay in an unsatisfactory job or marriage, why be bound by geography? And yet, I think those who live in the US and are not patriotic are proud of their dislike. I must admit, I try to avoid them socially.

 

[jazzbass]

Hmmmmm

For the most part, "Patriotism" scares me. It's often only one step (if that) from Nationalism which is one step from Fascism. If we define Patriotism as "love of country" then what do we actually mean--love of the constitution, the geography, the government, our history, our (eroding) freedoms, the people?

I'd have to answer all of those differently.



jazzbass

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Sophie Scholl was a German patriot. She was beheaded by the Nazis because of her patriotism, not for a lack of it.

A patriot can die for his or her country at the hands of that country's leaders ... and those leaders can well be wholly unpatriotic.

.

 

[Strider]

Patriotism is great, until it degenerates into teary eyed nostalgia for the generations past and their heroism/greatness, until patriotism becomes such that the country and its leaders can do no wrong, and anyone who says otherwise should leave. That's where the line is.

 

[Miss Crisplock]

Oh dear, I seem to have degenerated. I have been focusing as of late on John Adams and must admit he does make me teary-eyed. I also am nostalgic for generations past and their greatness.

 

[Pilgrim]

Having lived through the VietNam years, I would like to follow up on Strider's earlier post.

Patriotism is a good and noble thing. It motivates us to be honorable, to want the best for our country and its people, and (for the US) to be a good example to the world. It's a value that has been reinforced by more than 200 years of American jurisprudence, social development and military action. There are indeed may areas in which the U.S. serves as a positive example to the world.

Zealotry is not a good or noble thing. It leads to "Love it or Leave it" bumper stickers, people spitting on others who disgree with them, closed minds, unquestioning obedience to the Joe McCarthys of the world, and knee-jerk reactions to situations that are not simple and cannot be resolved by following the person who shouts loudest.

I am all for patriotism, and believe that I am a sincere U.S. patriot. Unfortunately, iIn the current climate, when I see someone with flags pasted all over their car, I'm not sure whether I'm seeing a patriot or a zealot. That's unfortunate.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Beware 'Pop Patriotism'...

We live in an era of "Pop Patriotism" where people who don't even vote and don't know the slightest thing about our Constitutional underpinnings and rights are waving the flag, pasting it on bumpers and using slogans like "United We Stand". I find this sort of thing deeply disturbing - I've had people snicker (and then confront me!) after reading the Declaration of Independence at a July 4th picnic! ("After all we're here to have fun see the fireworks!....not get into politics!") Patriotic?

Every perverse political movement uses "patriotism" as their underlying premise. The Nazis were intensely "patriotic" - that's what National Socialism is. The Soviets were patriotic - they even named WWII the 'Great Patriotic War'! I am sure Iranians are 'patriotic'. Even those "rebels" who defied the King and the established government to instigate a violent overthrow in the American colonies were 'patriotic' - while those at home in mother England who supported their King and their sovereign right to protect their colonial territories were - you guessed it - 'patriotic'!!

Robert J. Ringer covers this subject most perfectly in Chapter 8, p.239-262 'Keeping It All Together' in his book RESTORING THE AMERICAN DREAM (Harper & Row c.1979) He calls it what it is - sloganeering, and it is specifically designed to keep individuals from thinking, thinking too deeply and thinking rationally.

I've said it before in an earlier post - let's not worry too much about whether we or our neighbor is "patriotic". Let's think about the principles of Liberty, the origin and nature of Rights and the allegiance to (and practice of) those concepts in our daily lives and in the representation of those values through our government and it's bureaucracy.

Adherence to the Constitution of the United States of America and to the Bill of Rights is the starting point.

Respectfully,
Dixon Cannon

 

[jamespowers]

Adherence to the Constitution of the United States of America and to the Bill of Rights is the starting point.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Baron Kurtz]

It IS okay to be patriotic.

It IS okay to not give one hoot about where you're from. Not caring doesn't mean you don't like a place, or that you would not defend it. Would it bother me if i had been born in France rather than Scotland? Nope. Do i like Scotland more than i like France? Nope. I'm afraid i've embraced the European experiment: Europe is my country. Today Europe, tomorrow the World!!!

It IS NOT okay to attack anyone for being, or not being, patriotic.

bk

 

[Twitch]

Patriotism is fine. But like any vice or virtue it can be overdone to the point of annoyance. Moderation in all things is best.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

I'm reminded

of Barry Goldwater's famous words:

Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

-dixon cannon

 

[LizzieMaine]

I totally endorse Dixon's comments above -- and I think no matter where we stand on the political spectrum we can agree that patriotism never equates to a robotic allegience to the status quo. One of the common threads to be found among the administrations that really stand out in American history -- Lincoln, both Roosevelts, and Reagan among others -- is that they were led by men who believed that the country was on a wrong course, and they did everything they could to change that. I define the highest form of patriotism the same way they evidently did -- a willingness to confront whatever mistakes we might be making as a nation and to do all we can as individuals to bring about needed changes.

And nobody's gonna take away my right to do that.