Is a black waistcoat acceptable with White Tie?

[Awesomest Guy]

I'm probably never actually going to NEED to know, but I'm curious as to whether or not a classic black evening waistcoat would be considered permissible with Full Evening Dress/White Tie. I heard somewhere that it was allowed in the Victorian era, but that it went out of fashion after 1901.

 

[BR Gordon]

If you want a simple answer, it's NO. White tie is a very rigid style of dress that dates to the early 19 century. There is no allowance for individualism.

 

[Awesomest Guy]

If you want a simple answer, it's NO. White tie is a very rigid style of dress that dates to the early 19 century. There is no allowance for individualism.

Okay, thank you!

 

[Boinciel]

Black waistcoats with white tie completely disappeared during the 1930s as tailcoat fronts grew shorter, and white tie dress code stuck that way. I don't mind the look, but I think that a white waistcoat is much nicer-looking. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Boinciel hit the nail on the head. I would add that lots of white and black tie events are often "vintage" themed. For example, architectural and historical preservation organizations often throw fundraisers at which attendees wear authentic and/or reproduction vintage/antique evening clothes. In such a case, a black vest with tails is totally appropriate. But otherwise wearing a black vest with tails is considered a faux pas by the society set.

 

[Dirk Wainscotting]

It may be time to revive the trend and be the only person wearing a black W/C. If you do it with enough panache, people may follow. As long as the waistcoat is cut in the evening dress style.

 

[Haversack]

Another thing to remember is that it used to be that servants wearing formal or semi-formal accessorize it slightly wrong. For example, a four-in-hand tie instead of a bow tie. This was to allow them to blend in but still be identifiably separate.

 

[Sirmoneybags]

Actually it is allowed, but only if the event that you're attending is a male only event (thus very common with Freemasons) or if during certain academic events that take place during the day but one still wears white tie, not morning dress. This is atleast how it is in sweden (I've worn the black waistcoat a number of times myself) and I suspect most of scandinavia/nothern europe. Remember that this is mostly because people such as the DOW had less influence here to change the etiquette which is why here it's acceptable to show about 1-2cm of the waistcoat under the tailcoat while it's actually a faux pas in the united kingdom (or so my etiquette books say).

 

[ErWeSa]

I agree with Sirmoneybags - to my knowledge black waistcoats were allowed with tails when the event took place during the day/afternoon. What is essential is the white bow tie, black bow ties + black waistcoats were (and still are, e.g. at the Vienna Opera Ball) for the waiters - unless you attend a funeral where tails are called for. I do hope that nobody feels offended but the only picture of somebody wearing tails and a black waiscoat I knew of so far is Hitler wearing exactly this when at Bayreuth, see here: https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=deutsch&rais=1&oiu=http://www.germaniainternational.com/images/ahofecoathat04d.jpg&sp=b22341e8326702593029b37caa6e9fe1

 

[Edward]

As memory serves, the servants' variation was known as 'grey tie'.

 

[MisterCairo]

It used to be the fashion, but then it fell out of fashion, and some are now going back to the old fashion, so fashions change. QED.

 

[Mathematicus]

In the René Clair's "And the there were none" the butler Rogers sports a wonderful example of white tie with a black horseshoe waistcoat:

 

[Carl Thomas Trotter]

From what I understand, a Black Waistcoat is/was used to be used to distinguish servants from guests.

 

[JJ Katz]

No one will shout at you if you wear a black waistcoat but a white one looks better, with white tie, adn it is *certainly* correct. I mean, I get the desire for variety but just how often do you wear white tie???

 

[clementishutin]

If you want to stand out from the rest then YES.