IRVIN NUTS?...the ULTIMATE thread for those who love 'em!

[Spitfire]

ELC make the best repro IMO. Being a historian I would always buy an original Irvin and they cost much the same as the ELC repro. In my experience of handling many Irvins, they are seldom rotted or fragile like many American fleece jackets.

Would be nice to wear a real IRVIN - only one problem. Pilots where smaller back then. Smaller than me - anyway. (1,95 cm heigh with a matching build)
So my next IRVIN has to be ELC or Aero...

 

[aswatland]

Aswatland,

Interesting your comment regarding the durability and longevity of the Irvins versus the US sheepskin. I've noticed the same thing and not knowing much about them wondered why?

Were the Irvins made with a different and/or better quality sheepskin or what is the explanation? Thanks for any insight.

Different types of sheepskin I believe. The RAF Irvins were generally made from British sheepskin, which is very tough and long lasting. It is to do with the breed of sheep and perhaps the climate. USAAF fleece jackets and naval fleeces use shearling from different breeds.

 

[Speedster]

Setting aside the issue of whether a jacket looks 'authentic' or not, I'd just like to say that your Irvin looks a very nice jacket indeed and its 18 years of use has given it a wonderful 'broken-in' appearance. I picked up an Aviation leathercraft G1 from ebay a couple of years ago for £54 and I have to say that I wear it a lot - mostly for work and walking the dog in cold weather as it is extremely warm and very comfortable. I wouldn't have paid the new price for it ( over £300 ) if I wanted authenticity, but for 54 quid I think I got a bargain. It was in almost new condition but a lot more 'beat up' now !!
Nice jacket ! - don't ever get rid of it

Thanks silhouette53. Thanks for the kind words and i promise you - I won't ever get rid of it!

Looks like you got a nice G1 for a very reasonable price.

By the way; did you ever get that cap from the Classic Cap Company?

 

[Speedster]

Now if you were to get a NOS Dot zip put in???

Yes?? Where, please??

 

[Speedster]

The only practical downside to the AL Irvin is the overall bulk of the jacket brought on by the thickness of the fleece etc.

Mine was also extremely bulky for many years due to the thickness of the fleece, but the fleece has been worn over the years.

 

[Speedster]

My AL Irvin has excatly the same story. Back then I also believed that AL were the only ones producing the jackets. I even had a small sidebusiness selling AL IRVINS made to measure to danes way back in the seventies. (That was before the internet!)
If I could convince my wife, that I really, really needed another jacket - besides the 4 A2s and one IRVIN - I would go for a Eastman or Aero today. (BoB model)

So you were the one... A very good friend of mine (who bought his IRVIN together with me at Thruxton Airport back in '89) used to work in the advertising business (Vedel Reproduktion) back then and he told about this guy in an advertising agency who had started importing the Aviation Leathercraft IRVIN's. Small world...

 

[Smithy]

Yours Irvin looks wonderful now Speedster, age and wear really makes a difference to a jacket such as this and yours is a beauty.

I am ordering an ELC BoB Pattern Irvin as soon as I move into our new digs in Trondheim. Looking forward to it and Gary from ELC has been a joy to deal with, especially with all my size and fit enquiries!

 

[ToineS]

Thanks!

Toine,

Welcome to the Fedora Lounge. I take it you are the Dutch gentleman who posts regularly on the RAF re-enactor's forum?

There isn't a 'bible' on RAF sheepskins flying clothing, and facts are few and suppositions many. There are even those who dare believe that the estimable Mr. Prodger makes a mistake regarding dating an Irvin jacket in his excellent book...but then even he can't know everything.

I don't think I am exaggerating if I say that this forum contains a number of people who are as knowledgeable about the breed as you are likely to find.

Alan

Yes I am

I'm sorry to hear there's no such thing.
Maybe someone can make a website regarding Irvins?
I'd love to, but I don't know enough about them, though Im very willing to learn

Cheers, Toine

 

[ToineS]

I feel a 'bible' coming up after all ;-)

Hi Aswatland,

Will you be sharing all that info when you've finished?
I'd love to get a copy for my own reference.

I don't have many Irvins, just 2.
One ELC (1940 pattern) and an original. Via a gent on the RAF forum I had it dated. He guesstimated it as approx. 1938-1939 by a maker I can't remember.
The email it was in was lost in a computercrash...
As I did know the maker I believe it was Waerings.

I'd love to be able to do all that figuring out by myself on possible future Irvins.

Cheers, Toine

Sadly there are no works of reference on Irvin flying jackets. What is known is from handling originals, looking at labels, original photos. It is much easier to date B3s because the labels were machine stitched in (rather than hand tacked in as on mosts Irvins) and the contract numbers contained the date. I am compiling a list of contract nos for Irvins and will search the archives at Kew for the AM contracts to the four known makers, IAC, Wareings, DGL and Robinson and Ensum.

 

[aswatland]

Mint 1938 IRVIN

I am still waiting for this Irvin to arrive. It is pre-war, probably dating from 1938, having the mottled Dot zip pull on the main zip. Certainly no later than '39. It is mint, stored through the war and afterwards. It appears to be the work of Irvin Air Chute. More pics when it arrives!

 

[Alan Eardley]

NOS zip

Yes?? Where, please??

They turn up from time to time but are very rare. I picked up a NOS Dot on 'the auction site' recently. I also saw something I have never seen before on a second-hand clothing store in Birmingham Rag Market - a civilian jacket with a single-trunnion Dot with 'Made in England' on the stopper box. Just like those on some RAF jackets. I almost bought it for the zip but wouldn't have the heart to spoil a nice old jacket.

Aero has reclaimed Dots occasionally and will install. ELC are 'too busy' to do repairs or mods at the moment.

But seriously, can I make an appeal on behalf of all restorers of original jackets? Could owners of reproduction please use reproduction zips, or at least relatively plentiful originals such as Lightnings? Dots are getting scarce and should, I feel, be used to keep original jackets in as near to original condition as possible.

Just my opinion.

Alan

 

[Baron Kurtz]

But seriously, can I make an appeal on behalf of all restorers of original jackets? Could owners of reproduction please use reproduction zips, or at least relatively plentiful originals such as Lightnings?

Alan

good call.

bk

 

[Clyde R.]

Different types of sheepskin I believe. The RAF Irvins were generally made from British sheepskin, which is very tough and long lasting. It is to do with the breed of sheep and perhaps the climate. USAAF fleece jackets and naval fleeces use shearling from different breeds.

Thanks, I suspected as much. The Irvins do seem to have been very well made of excellent materials.

 

[Alan Eardley]

I am still waiting for this Irvin to arrive. It is pre-war, probably dating from 1938, having the mottled Dot zip pull on the main zip. Certainly no later than '39. It is mint, stored through the war and afterwards. It appears to be the work of Irvin Air Chute. More pics when it arrives!

It's a beauty and a treasure! I am sure it will be well worth the money in the fullness of time.

I agree with the IAC estimate. Look at the belt loops. It's hard to tell in photograph, but it seems to be exceedngly well made. Wareings didn't tend to make jackets that neatly, even pre-war. Doesn't it have a label? That's unusual for IAC - they were very keen to proclaim their identity.

I don't think you're far off with the date, either. The fur is relatively thick. The zip would place it as 1938 or soon after anyway. The body is cut fairly long too, but unless you know what size (length) it's supposed too be (e.g. on the label) I never consider that to be a reliable indicator.

Dating RAF sheepskin jackets is a minefield! Far better just to enjoy them...

Alan

 

[Smithy]

I am still waiting for this Irvin to arrive. It is pre-war, probably dating from 1938, having the mottled Dot zip pull on the main zip. Certainly no later than '39. It is mint, stored through the war and afterwards. It appears to be the work of Irvin Air Chute. More pics when it arrives!

Another one for the collection aswatland!

That really is a humdinger of an Irvin. You'll have to post some more pics when it arrives, still looks to be in stunning condition.

 

[Speedster]

I am still waiting for this Irvin to arrive. It is pre-war, probably dating from 1938, having the mottled Dot zip pull on the main zip. Certainly no later than '39. It is mint, stored through the war and afterwards. It appears to be the work of Irvin Air Chute. More pics when it arrives!

That is a beautiful jacket aswatland. Congratulations with yet another one for the collection.

 

[Speedster]

They turn up from time to time but are very rare. I picked up a NOS Dot on 'the auction site' recently. I also saw something I have never seen before on a second-hand clothing store in Birmingham Rag Market - a civilian jacket with a single-trunnion Dot with 'Made in England' on the stopper box. Just like those on some RAF jackets. I almost bought it for the zip but wouldn't have the heart to spoil a nice old jacket.

Aero has reclaimed Dots occasionally and will install. ELC are 'too busy' to do repairs or mods at the moment.

But seriously, can I make an appeal on behalf of all restorers of original jackets? Could owners of reproduction please use reproduction zips, or at least relatively plentiful originals such as Lightnings? Dots are getting scarce and should, I feel, be used to keep original jackets in as near to original condition as possible.

Just my opinion.

Alan

Alan, i promise you, should i ever change the zipper in my AL i will go for a Lightning. Scarce original zippers should be used to renovate old original jackets.

But thinking more about i will keep my jacket as it is. The money would be better spent going into a repro from ELC or Aeroleather or an original jacket.

 

[Spitfire]

It's all very nice, when IRVIN-fans talk about "better getting an real, old one for the same amount of money as a good replica!!!"

But where, and how???

And in a size 50????

Thank you for ELC ann AL.

 

[aswatland]

It's a beauty and a treasure! I am sure it will be well worth the money in the fullness of time.

I agree with the IAC estimate. Look at the belt loops. It's hard to tell in photograph, but it seems to be exceedngly well made. Wareings didn't tend to make jackets that neatly, even pre-war. Doesn't it have a label? That's unusual for IAC - they were very keen to proclaim their identity.

I don't think you're far off with the date, either. The fur is relatively thick. The zip would place it as 1938 or soon after anyway. The body is cut fairly long too, but unless you know what size (length) it's supposed too be (e.g. on the label) I never consider that to be a reliable indicator.

Dating RAF sheepskin jackets is a minefield! Far better just to enjoy them...

Alan

The dimensions equate to a size 5, so will fit up to a 42" chest with shirt or 40 with service jacket and jumper! Very long 27" sleeves, like on my 1941 mint Irvin. I will post pics when it arrives.

 

[aswatland]

1938 IRVIN in superb condition

My son has been busy again! The nice weather helps. I am wearing original wartime Wing Commander's uniform and 1941 flying boots.