Iron Heart Jeans problem - and solution

[eClairvaux]

I got a pair of 21 oz extra-heavy Iron Heart IHS634S Jeans about a year ago, hoping they would expand the time between being broken-in properly to the moment when they fall apart.

After some initial phase where they felt like cardboard (the Aero FQHH owners know what I am talking about), they developed a smooth, almost velvety feel to them. Soon enough, I had a hard time putting on any of my other, now seemingly lesser denim jeans.

However, a few months ago the front pockets started to fray.





I asked Giles of Iron Heart UK about the problem, but he replied

"3-4 years ago we upped the strength of the twill in the pocket bags, because the twill we were using was too light. Maybe, you got a pair with older lightweight twill. I have seen no major problems with the twill since we changed, in fact I have only had 2 complaints about the twill ever. The pocket openings on the 634S are quite tight, so this may contribute to the problem you are seeing. "

and that I should see any good seamstress about that.

Well, I could have moved on, but I really like those jeans apart from this problem. Then I became aware of a collaboration model with DC4, a japanese denim shop in Berlin, which had special protection sewn on the inside of the pockets. I ordered a pair and asked after I (happily) received them, if they applied this measure because they were aware of the fraying problem.

The owner replied yes and offered to repair my pair that I hadn't even bought at his store but at iron heart UK free of charge. It was returned yesterday and I think they did an excellent job, given the damage before repair.





I am sure many loungers here are just as happy to find a shop owner that goes out of his way to satisfy a customer. So I really have to recommend DC4 for doing an excellent job and restoring my first pair to old splendor.

It should be added that the DC4 model adds a lot more nice details and is a nice evolution to the standard model. And if it does last twice as long as any standard pair, they'll also be reasonably priced.

 

[Dav]

That looks like a good repair eClairvaux. I thought I was the only member here mad enough to spend that much money on a pair of jeans.

 

[eClairvaux]

I had to come out of the closet with that madness sooner or later

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

This annoyes me alot about "top-quality" denim.

I got a pair of japanese selvedge and they also tore at the pocket. They were $200

My current pair, nudie slim jim dry japan deadstock look, also has frayed on the leg
even before they are broken in. They arent even washed yet. I have used them about
7 months now and Im not wrestling in the gravel im just walking in them
and using them in front of the tv and playing on the floor with my kid.

Its not in the end of the leg either but maybe 10" up in the seem.
Theese were almost half the price as the selvedge and has hold up good elsewhere tho.

I was gonna get a pair of IronHeart but now Im not so sure.

 

[Mr Badger]

That's great what the DC4 guy did for you, top class customer service, I reckon!

As for pocket wear, it's funny cause quite a few pals of mine complain about this issue, but I've never had any problems, not even with the shirting-pocketed S501s. Hopefully, that doesn't mean I'm tight with money!

When you say fraying 10" up the seam, do you mean a kind of 'break through' caused by the denim rubbing on itself because it was unwashed and stiff? If so, this kind of wear is very common with 'dry' jeans, apart from the slightly softer Lee and Wranger twills. My Levi's S501 1944 models both have serious 'break through' in several spots on the back of each knee, basically through simply wearing 'em dry. A pal of mine used to get his unwashed jeans dry cleaned to avoid this problem and it seemed to tackle this issue of colour transfer and slightly flatten the twill, too...

 

[Dav]

I can't say that I have ever had it happen to any of my jeans pockets. I wonder if the people who do get it wear rings? I don't.

 

[eClairvaux]

This annoyes me alot about "top-quality" denim.

I got a pair of japanese selvedge and they also tore at the pocket. They were $200

My current pair, nudie slim jim dry japan deadstock look, also has frayed on the leg
even before they are broken in. They arent even washed yet. I have used them about
7 months now and Im not wrestling in the gravel im just walking in them
and using them in front of the tv and playing on the floor with my kid.

Its not in the end of the leg either but maybe 10" up in the seem.
Theese were almost half the price as the selvedge and has hold up good elsewhere tho.

I was gonna get a pair of IronHeart but now Im not so sure.

I generally don't believe in the japanese denim frenzy. I think they are extremely overpriced and too fragile for a piece of rugged every-day gear.
I fell for the Iron Hearts because of their insanely heavy denim and I have to say I really love how they wear and break in. I do wear them a lot and they make no fuss about washing them, so they've been washed in the washing machine at least 20 times.

21 oz is about as dense as it get's even on those old time looms. And now with the pockets reinforced, I am definitely not looking back to standard denim.

However that doesn't count in the nudies, prps and similar brands who cater to an audience that somehow manages to miss all the edges and rough surfaces that make me wear through a pair of regular jeans in less than 6 months of non-permanent wear. Those are definitely not made for me.

 

[eClairvaux]

I can't say that I have ever had it happen to any of my jeans pockets. I wonder if the people who do get it wear rings? I don't.

Neither have I, this was the first time. And yes I do wear a wedding ring and a sharp-edged scuba-type of wristwatch too.

 

[53Effie]

I am another who spent a bunch on the 634S model about 8 months ago. Very interesting discussion and the first I've heard of the issues mentioned. No problems yet, but I haven't worn mine too much yet. I think I may have washed them twice early on...at least once. As I wear them more I'll keep an eye out for the noted problems. This really surprises me. I would think they are practically indestructible.

On a side note, Mr Badger can you answer my question on the Lee Stormrider thread about the tag markings R and MR on those jackets? The MR one I've seen doesn't say Made in USA I've noted. Thanks.

 

[JakeHolman]

I've had no problems with my 3 yr old Ironhearts. Been pretty tough but I only wear them during the winter months, they get the summer 'off'.

I have had the pocket stitching problems above with two pairs of Sugarcanes plus crotch blow-outs although the denim has faded beautifully.

The best Japanese denim i've owned ( I used to be a real denim-head ) has been made by Joe McCoys. 14.5oz denim in a very classic cut, no fancy branding. The fade to a very 'vintage' finish and so far no rips or tears after a couple of years.

That's great service from DC4, btw!

 

[Aether]

No problems with my 2 year old 634s either. Glad to hear that you got it sorted, kudos to DC4 for the great service!

I must also confess to being a bit of a Japanese denim fan. I like the 'perfection at any cost' attitude of the Japanese companies - in that respect they aren't any different to Aero, Goodwear etc - and I pretty much live in jeans and a leather jacket, so will happily pay a bit more for something special. The construction and materials used are far superior to any of the 'standard' denim companies.

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

My hole isnt in the back of the knee and it wasnt 10" up either, its only 2" up and when I examined it more closely I see its because its rubbing on the other leg when Im walking. This is an "ok tear" but still it would be better if one could walk in the jeans without them getting holes. Apart from this they are even better then the premium selvedge ones.
I will post pics tomorrow together with my over a year natural wallet.

 

[Mr Badger]

Its not in the end of the leg either but maybe 10" up in the seem.

Sorry, Griff, was only trying to help! Glad you worked out what was causing it...

 

[Bonneville]

Well I live in such an isolated region they have to pipe the light in, as a result I have never been exposed to any denim beyond your average $40.00 Wranglers. Some day I'm going to find out what I've been missing. I usually get 5+ years or more out of a pair of Wranglers, the denim seems okay to me. I can't imagine how nice those super premium jeans are.

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

Sorry, Griff, was only trying to help! Glad you worked out what was causing it...

Nothing to be sorry about, and I know what you mean about dry jeans being stiff. Theese arent so stiff tho, and not nearly as thick as premium selvedge. They do have some starch in them but its another world totally. They are just normal dry jeans and are actually soft.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Well I live in such an isolated region they have to pipe the light in, as a result I have never been exposed to any denim beyond your average $40.00 Wranglers. Some day I'm going to find out what I've been missing. I usually get 5+ years or more out of a pair of Wranglers . . .

I have to echo Bonneville's sentiments. While I'm a huge fan of a high end reproduction work wear from Japan, the LVC reissue lines and Levi's and Lee's mid-range mainline selvage offerings, my like is based on coolness, not quality. Sure, the salesman hocking high priced premium denim will tell you that you get premium quality for the extra cabbage, but in reality, I've never noticed a difference. I seriously can't remember ever wearing out a pair of 501s, 101s, or even nineteen-buck Dickies denims that I used to buy to work construction in . . .

. . . no indigo denim will stay dark blue or maintain that stiff raw-denim hand if it's washed too much.

 

[Aether]

I have to echo Bonneville's sentiments. While I'm a huge fan of a high end reproduction work wear from Japan, the LVC reissue lines and Levi's and Lee's mid-range mainline selvage offerings, my like is based on coolness, not quality. Sure, the salesman hocking high priced premium denim will tell you that you get premium quality for the extra cabbage, but in reality, I've never noticed a difference. I seriously can't remember ever wearing out a pair of 501s, 101s, or even nineteen-buck Dickies denims that I used to buy to work construction in . . .

. . . no indigo denim will stay dark blue or maintain that stiff raw-denim hand if it's washed too much.

The denim that companies like Iron Heart and Samurai use is pretty special, Iron Hearts for instance are generally 21oz compared to 12ish oz for an average pair of jeans, Samurai range from 15-24oz I believe. I've 'been down the road' in a couple of bike crashes wearing 17oz Samurais and they've protected me pretty well from road rash!

 

[JakeHolman]

. . . no indigo denim will stay dark blue or maintain that stiff raw-denim hand if it's washed too much.

I think thats the point though. Your average mall jeans are pre-washed, pre-distressed, etc. and just wont take on the ageing characteristics of the top-end denim (note, i'm not talking about your Abercrombie and Fitch, D&G, etc. monstrosities, but the Japanese brands like Iron Heart). You wear them and wear them and they break-in and fade in that individual way, like a leather jacket.

A lot of the Japanese firms are relatively small, artisanal set-ups who meticulously research the materials and characteristics of vintage denim. Some companies use expensive natural indigo, others very labor intensive manufacturing techniques.

For me, its very akin to the differences between a cheap leather jacket and a £500 Aero HH. I'm not saying its not expensive but IMO, there really is a difference.

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

Here is the tear:

And the un-teared pocket. The other one is as good as this one.

My wallet made from the finest saddle leather. It had this color all over from the start.

I waxed the edges.

Its coming along nicely, but is still lighter then I would like. The ass side is a bit darker tho

 

[apba1166]

I work, jobwise, outdoors a lot, and my stuff gets the treatment...boots are scratched and gouged within days, jackets get scuffed, denim snags. So....

...Like some of you others, I've gone crazy at times and bought stuff just "to see" what the deal is. I hated when the jeans went pre-washed. etc., years (decades!) ago, stopped wearing them, but about 10 years ago I caved and joined the crowd. I have 501s now for 10 years with no tears, no holes and worn nearly white--I have 505s worn out in 8 months, others 505s going strong for years; and some 512s and 517s that wear a bit in-between. This could be how I wear each kind and for what, don't know, never thought about it. I do know no two pair fit alike, or even wear and wear out alike--all made from God Knows how many places and factories and denims and countries, even if tagged the same.

Then I discovered rigid Wranglers--$14 on their site, all identical--like jeans from the old days, and because they are not pre-softened, they snag a lot less going through the woods, etc. Orvis makes this heavy denim/twill pant I also like, I forget the name but they are the ones with the leather clip hanging from a belt loop. I think those are really great, best for breezing through without snags, tough, had for years, great pants--and I have some heavy very dense tight twill-like stuff, and lined, from Hickey Freeman that is also foolproof.

Now, on to the expensive stuff (yes, at least double Hickey Freeman, which is nuts): after reading about these other jeans I went to a Selfedge store on a work trip to LA and tried a whole bunch on (btw, the people there were super nice, extremely knowledgeable, and a great help). Some of these artisan jeans are just designed poorly--buttonholes are bad, hip seams set too low and rub, pockets thin or badly sewn, or in the case of the Iron Hearts, the rise is simply too low for my comfort, although the 634S do just about make it, so I got a pair for laughs--until the credit card statement comes, that is. I thought SugarCanes fit the most like I'm used to, and were the best designed, perhaps because they deconstruct actual Levis or whatever rather than re-inventing the wheel. The IH's are nice, but not much different than a heavy pair of black LL Bean's I got years ago and which seem almost identical in denim and weave, and took awhile to soften too.

For all the 21oz hype the IHs seem, I emphasize "seem", no heavier than either the Orvis, HF, or Bean--at least feeling them. I was out in the woods this morning in them and they breeze right through all the thorns and whatnot without getting caught. Nice pants--and built and feel like work jeans should be--but of course a crazy price. The SugarCanes I got are too "hairy" to go rough in--but I really like them for fit and style. Yet...there's still those $14 rigid Wranglers.....if they'd just make them a tad heavier and charge me, say $19.99, that would be a win-win for everyone.