Input on Aero Café Racer order

[mattp]

Hello Loungers,

I've been lurking for a while here, soaking up the knowledge and opinions on all the different options available when ordering a custom Aero, and was hoping for some opinions on an order I'm hoping to put in in the near future. Obviously it comes down to personal taste, but just seeing if I've overlooked anything or if I'm doing anything that won't work so well.
What I've got so far:

Aero Café Racer (2 pocket version)
Brown FQHH (heaviest available, prefer rich dark brown)
Black Watch weathered tartan - Reiver 10oz (is this the standard thickness? I love the look of the tartan, but am mindful if it wears prematurely it will mean shipping the jacket from Australia to Scotland, which is expensive. I originally wanted Harris Tweed, but realistically this is too hot for Australia)
Sleeve and pocket linings in olive drab gabardine (is this a decent pocket lining option? Also considering brown moleskin for pockets but haven't found too many photos of this or reports on the durability)
2” leather facing bottom inner lining at bits where no kidney panel (for longevity)
Antique brass hardware
2 horizontal breast pockets with ball & chain zippers
Possibly a double ended front zipper? (I've seen Iron Heart have a double-ended zip on their new collaboration jacket, but seeing as this isn't really going to be an IH jacket I wanted to stick with the Aero branded ones. Has anyone else done this and is it worth it? I've got double ended zips on my Vanson and they're handy but not 100% necessary as I probably won't ever ride in this jacket anyway.)
Full length pocket in right inner facing with zip closure (is this what is referred to as a gun pocket? or a map pocket? G1 etc nomenclature has me a bit confused) The zipper's on this one so anything in there will be secure if jacket is off and thrown on a chair or something.
Half length vertical pocket in left inner facing with stud closure (easier access for phone)
1" storm/wind flap for front zipper - Is this going to get in the way? It's more authentic for a motorbike jacket but I'm unsure as Aero have obviously not got it on there as standard for a reason?
Bi-swing back shoulders only - As I won't be riding in this I was tempted by the plain back,

Is there anything I've missed here? I've got a Vanson PLU-3 that fits nicely which is a 44, but I think I'm going to go with a 42 long for this one, I think the Vanson's tend to run large. I intend on dropping by Ace Café next time I'm in London as their 3 display jackets are all size 42 so I can check the fit. I've already had some great input from Giles at IH, and will put the order in through him as soon as I nail it all down.

Lining:

Photo borrowed from another lounger, I hope this is OK but this photo is the one I found that made me pick this tartan. The choice is overwhelming from Lochcarron, but when I did cadets many years ago we had Black Watch kilts, so I wanted to use this in some way.

Just also wondering if I should wait until the HH supply at Aero picks up in late April, in case there are thicker, darker hides coming in then? I know whatever they supply will be top notch, but just something that crossed my mind...

Many thanks!

Cheers,
Matt

 

[JanSolo]

Hi,

so far your order sounds great. Very detailed spec sheet with loads of useful details.

One or two things to consider:

-OD gabardine is sold out and will never come back. I suggest brown cotton drill for the sleeves
-The two way zipper is a very good idea. Looks great and is very useful when driving in your car. Obviously Aero won't put the IH branded zipper on but they have an Aero branded equivalent in aged brass

Otherwise, good luck!

EDIT:

The gun- or G1 pocket has a vertical entry. I strongly suggest to go for a hidden snap. I zipper would be too clumsy plus any sort of knitwear would suffer from an inside zip.

 

[olworthers]

Hey Matt,

Looks like a great choice of spec to me. I was just about to start a similar thread as I'm planning to order a cafe racer myself, received samples of horse and steerhide yesterday from Amanda at Aero, I'm still trying to make my mind up on which to go with....


OW

 

[mrc]

If you already have a PLU-3, why not just work with Insurrection on the jacket. You've obviously worked with them before and they'll know a lot better than any of us, or Aero for that matter, how the PLU-3 sizing is compared to the Aero Cafe' Racer sizing.

 

[mattp]

JanSolo - Thanks for the tips, your advice carries a lot of weight with all your experience and the great jackets you've had, and I'm glad you replied. If I can't get the gabardine the brown cotton drill is my second choice. I have an internal zipper on a Harley Davidson jacket I have and haven't had any problems with it snagging my clothes, but that's a good point to consider and I may get snap closures on both sides. I'm pleased to hear there's an Aero branded two-way zip too.

olworthers - It has to be horsehide for me, I saw some samples myself and the steer hide is even thicker than the horse, but there's something about the way the horse wears in and develops patina (from the photos I've seen anyway!). Plus I have cow jackets already, and Aero seems synonymous with FQHH in my humble opinion. Good luck with your order!

mrc - I'm based in the UK, so it wouldn't make sense to go through a US based reseller. Also, let's just say i haven't had the great experience that everyone talks about with Wade's fitting advice in the past, to my great expense in shipping costs I would love to go to their store someday though, their range sounds amazing and I guess at the end of the day you can't beat trying a jacket on to see how it looks.

 

[mattp]

Has anyone actually got a Cafe Racer with the leather strip around the bottom hem, or in the sleeve ends? I imagine they could just sew the ends in behind the kidney panel so that would look fine for the bottom hem, I am just trying to picture how they'll do the sleeve ends with the zips. My Vanson has the sleeves with ~2" of leather inside as the sleeve is rolled back on itself internally, if that makes sense, rather than sewing a separate strip in there. Is that how Aero do it, or is the horsehide too thick/stiff for this? I've seen other styles with the leather cuff strips but it dawned on me I haven't seen it on the CR. One of my watches has knurling on the bezel which will chew up the lining if there's no leather there to protect it but I don't want to mess with Aero's designs unless I'm sure it's going to work well.
Cheers,
Matt

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

I feel it will be too clumsy with the double leather in the sleeves and the bottom hem. The jacket is very trim fitting. As you can see in the pictures in the thread Im linking to, the jacket is tight against my hips, and since i unfortunately have kinda large hips, i personally wouldnt want a milimeter more there. If you got tiny hips then thats a different story.
The arms when zipped is close to strangling my wrist and I also wouldnt want any extra bulk there. My 30´s halfbelt has leather lined cuffs and I feel they are a little bulky. However as pointed out there might be someway to do it slicker.

Bottom line - I would ask Aero about this, if they have done it before and if they think it will look ok, before "ordering" them to do it.


I would go for a plain back, it will restrict movement abit when driving but horsehide stretches and I think it will break in and work good. I had a full biswing and changed it to a plain back and its working for me. (yes its tighter feeling, but also neater looking)
(my change http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?61648-My-modified-Cafe-Racer&highlight= )

I would also consider 2-panel arms.

...aand I would think about satin in the arms...yes it might wear...but the drill is not funny in the arms. I have it in my CafeRacer and I regret it.

 

[mattp]

Thanks Griff, I've emailed Aero to see if they've done it before and get their thoughts on whether it will be too bulky or uncomfortable.
I hear what you're saying about the satin for the sleeves, but I would rather the durability. I've got other jackets with cotton drill sleeve linings that don't worry me so it should be fine. It seem the 2 panel arms are more slim fitting than the 3 panel ones, is tho correct? If so I might have to avoid those, despite the 'cleaner' look.
Your CR in the linked thread is amazing by the way! Definitely better with the plain back, and I love the colour of that jacket!
Cheers,
Matt

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

I don't know if the 2-panel arms will be slimmer, I just thought it was a design feature, but you may be right, maybe they use 3 panels to get it a certain form.

I also chose drill in the arms for longevity, so as long as you know what you get then yes its probably the best lining option now that they don't have the garbadine anymore.

 

[mattp]

Alright, order submitted, thanks for the input! I went with a size 43, 20" shoulders and 27" arms. I've just asked for standard length in the body, but I'd love to hear from someone with a 42 or 44 cafe racer what the length of 'standard' actually is in inches? I feel a cafe racer should be not too long, but I don't want it to be sitting too high as I'm just over 6'3".
In the end I also went with a standard Aero zip and no windflap, since it looks so damn nice and symmetrical and I'll mostly be wearing it open. The only double ended zippers available are quite chunky, so would need a windflap (IMHO) to protect belts etc from scratching or catching wool jumpers etc. I really like the way the standard zip is nestled in between the layers of leather so it's fairly hidden.
With the leather lining in the wrists they can shave it down so it's much thinner than the rest of the leather, and make allowances in terms of wrist circumference.
This is going to be a long 11 weeks...
Cheers, Matt

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

Amanda should know the measurement, just ask her.

 

[Mojo1975]

Alright, order submitted, thanks for the input! I went with a size 43, 20" shoulders and 27" arms. I've just asked for standard length in the body, but I'd love to hear from someone with a 42 or 44 cafe racer what the length of 'standard' actually is in inches? I feel a cafe racer should be not too long, but I don't want it to be sitting too high as I'm just over 6'3".
In the end I also went with a standard Aero zip and no windflap, since it looks so damn nice and symmetrical and I'll mostly be wearing it open. The only double ended zippers available are quite chunky, so would need a windflap (IMHO) to protect belts etc from scratching or catching wool jumpers etc. I really like the way the standard zip is nestled in between the layers of leather so it's fairly hidden.
With the leather lining in the wrists they can shave it down so it's much thinner than the rest of the leather, and make allowances in terms of wrist circumference.
This is going to be a long 11 weeks...
Cheers, Matt

I think Amanda is oversizing you, just as we did initially on the Vanson PLU-3. You might want to reconsider what measurements you're giving shops and manufacturers (and when I say that I'm just trying to be helpful). A 43 Aero Cafe' Racer will be at least as large as a 46 Vanson PLU-3. Further, the stock length on body will be far too short, that is, if you like the length of the PLU-3 Vanson. We add leather facing to the inside, bottom hem to all of our Cafe' Racers...works great.

This is part of the reason that a previous post indicated that you work with who you've worked with before. As these specs. stand, we're probably looking at a remake...

 

[Mojo1975]

...let's just say i haven't had the great experience that everyone talks about with Wade's fitting advice in the past, to my great expense in shipping costs

Not cool...we bent over backwards to get you in the right size, given the measurements you provided. We never guarantee fit, nor does Aero, Vanson, Bates, Langlitz, Lost Worlds, etc. However, we, just like the aforementioned companies, will go out of our way to get you in the proper size, which is exactly what we did...you're now in a Vanson PLU-3 44 instead of a Vanson PLU-3 46. If you want a guaranteed fit, please just buy off-the-rack from local companies where you can try the garment on.

 

[mattp]

Not cool...we bent over backwards to get you in the right size, given the measurements you provided. We never guarantee fit, nor does Aero, Vanson, Bates, Langlitz, Lost Worlds, etc. However, we, just like the aforementioned companies, will go out of our way to get you in the proper size, which is exactly what we did...you're now in a Vanson PLU-3 44 instead of a Vanson PLU-3 46. If you want a guaranteed fit, please just buy off-the-rack from local companies where you can try the garment on.

I don't want to argue here, but your condescending tone demands a response. How exactly did you bend over backwards? I paid for a jacket, including shipping, got it, it was too big, I paid the full shipping cost to send it back, then paid again in full for a new jacket including shipping again. Once the jacket got back to you you refunded me, minus the shipping. Maybe I've been spoilt in my dealings with other companies, and I would certainly give you credit for decent customer service, but not 'bending over backwards'. Don't get me wrong, the main problem is that I should have gone with what I originally wanted, rather than changing my mind for the larger size based on your advice. I sent you measurements of a jacket that fit well, and got one with vastly different measurements (3.5" bigger pit to pit). There's nothing wrong with my measurements. Since we're discussing my jacket, you never replied to the other thread regarding the country of origin of Vanson jackets; I'd love to hear more about the tags 'falling off' the jackets made in El Salvador.
Back to the Cafe Racer; I never expect a guaranteed fit, but I have tried on both 42 and 44 Aero Cafe Racers, and there's no way a 43 Aero CR will fit like the PLU-3 46. Standard shoulder width on a 42 CR is 20", shoulder width on the PLU-3 44 is 20.5", back length on a standard CR 42 is 26", back length on the PLU-3 44 is 25.5". Anyway, I'm not going to debate this with you, the measurements from the jackets don't lie, thanks for your input, and let's leave it at that.
For the record, Amanda isn't sizing me too big; I haven't asked her for advice on sizing based on any measurements, only checked a few 'standard' measurements with her to compare to my own jackets. Sizing for this one is going off trying jackets on and taking measurements from those, and advice from a trusted Aero collaborator and retailer.
Cheers, Matt

 

[deuxcv]

does anyone know the difference between aero "ball and chain" and the "ring and chain" zippers.

does anyone have the Iron Horse / Aero collaboration cafe racer? what do you think of their "heavy duty" zippers.

and lastly on zippers... aero "bright" brass or "antiqued" brass for a black fqhh racer. Amanda says they are uncoated, so they should hopefully tarnish and dull on their own. can anyone verify that the zippers and pulls un-brighten. if they do, a qtip with diluted ammonia would give it a nice and quick base coat of oxidation.

 

[HectorTorta]

Lining:

Photo borrowed from another lounger, I hope this is OK but this photo is the one I found that made me pick this tartan. The choice is overwhelming from Lochcarron, but when I did cadets many years ago we had Black Watch kilts, so I wanted to use this in some way.

Hey - that's my pic! I'm obviously a bit biased, but that tartan pattern partnered with the brown FQHH is just gorgeous. Even more so in real life! Enjoy your new jacket.

 

[IXL]

At the risk of steering this thread off course just a bit:
Vanson. I ordered a jacket from Wade, and it was suggested I try a Size 40. Man, did I ever look great in that jacket, but couldn't touch my nose. It was just too small in the shoulders. So, a quick call and my too-small jacket was on its way back to Insurrection. He gave me the choice of either waiting until they received the jacket back and then a replacement would be sent, or they would send the size 42 out that day, with the understanding that my card would be charged and then refunded when they received back the first jacket.
I chose option #2. There was no problem at all. I didn't feel slighted that a company that didn't know me at all, and one I had no history with at that point, wanted to avoid sending an expensive jacket to a complete stranger: this is just normal business. He didn't know me well enough to not trust me, so it was not personal. The jackets crossed in the mail, the replacement still looks great on me, and I can even touch my nose. The second credit card charge was promptly reversed.
I ended up paying for the return shipping on the too-small jacket, and the shipping on its replacement. I guess I could have flown to Seattle and avoided all shipping costs by trying out the jackets right there in Insurrection's showroom, but it seemed a bit cheaper to just pay shipping a couple of times than round-trip air fare.
I do believe Wade was trying to be helpful with the sizing suggestion; why would he not be. It just happened to miss this particular time: oh well. But on the flip side, we now know my basic size and I'm sure he can use the size 42 Vanson as a base reference for making sizing recommendations on all future purchases from him, regardless of brand.
So, just as soon as i figure out just what the hell it is that I want next time (I'm leaning towards an Aero), I have a clear intention of ordering from them once again, and I bet I'll avoid having to return anything next time.

 

[mattp]

does anyone know the difference between aero "ball and chain" and the "ring and chain" zippers.

does anyone have the Iron Horse / Aero collaboration cafe racer? what do you think of their "heavy duty" zippers.

and lastly on zippers... aero "bright" brass or "antiqued" brass for a black fqhh racer. Amanda says they are uncoated, so they should hopefully tarnish and dull on their own. can anyone verify that the zippers and pulls un-brighten. if they do, a qtip with diluted ammonia would give it a nice and quick base coat of oxidation.

I can't help you with the latter two points, but the ball and chain and ring and chain, are exactly as they sound, I've tried to illustrate with the following photos but they're not super clear I'm afraid. Vanson seem to use the ring and chain type on their chest pockets, it's what's on my PLU-3. Thanks to Ben Stiller and GriffDeLaGriff for modelling!

Ball and chain

Ring and chain

HectorTorta: Thanks! It was your picture that made my mind up for me, I haven't seen it in the flesh but I'm sure it will be amazing.

IXL: I'm not bashing Wade or Insurrection, the only reason for my somewhat lengthy post on the matter was that he came in and said my comments were 'not cool' and made out I was being unreasonable. I also didn't appreciate the insinuation that my measurements were off; I sent a full list of measurements, including a photo of a jacket that fit me well with pertinent measurements overlaid. Said jacket has a pit-to-pit measurement of 21", and I got a jacket sent to me with 24.5" pit-to-pit. That's quite a discrepancy, and accounted for the tent-like fit. I'm saddened by the fact that I had to send back the 46, since it seemed to me to be much better quality, both in leather and finish. It had all different hardware to the 44 (main zip, inside studs), so I wonder whether it was a US made jacket? Which reminds me, I never did hear back from Wade on why the 'Made in El Salvador' tag fell off my jacket before it came into my possession. Anyway, I knew the risks associated with buying online without trying something on, and accepted that. My comments were based on the fact that from posts I'd read it sounded like he was some sort of sizing guru, and perhaps I placed too much faith in that rather than going with my first instinct; maybe my comments will save someone else a few bucks in shipping as they learn from my mistake. In my case shipping was $150, not just a few bucks. I never expected them to send a replacement based on trust, I had the same options as you got, and also chose #2.
Anyway, they seem to have a cool shop and I wish them well. It wouldn't make sense for me to use a US agent though, since I live in the UK.
All the best,
Matt

 

[IXL]

Matt, I didn't realize you were in the U.K. $150.00? Twice? Zowie!!! Hopefully there is a Vanson dealer in your neck of the woods. At least the shipping would be a lot less.
My Vanson jacket had the "Made in El Salvador" label as well, but in mine it was very securely stitched. The jacket is well-made and I enjoy wearing it. Get a lot of compliments, too!
At least with an Aero purchase you will be shopping in your own back yard, and that is always good!
Next time you're in town the first rounds are on me.

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

Closeup of the ball and chain: