In praise of newer Stetson

[J.T.Marcus]

I had an Open Road in the 70's and it was a great hat. That LBJ went everywhere in all kinds of weather and held its own. Trouble is.........you can't find them in large sizes, i.e. 7 7/8 or 8. Fact is.......most outlets stop at 7 3/4 on most styles and makes. So a big head is a problem in the world of hats.

Check your private messages.

 

[kiltie]

My 2 pennies...

Stetson Firenze ( Sovereign ) going on two years old:

Got into a pretty good row while holding it wadded up in my hand.
Coupla good rains.
Three or four "cold" creases.
General "everyday" wear for a year prior to developing a deeper collection.

This has been an excellent year 'round ( don't wear straw much...) hat for me, and I would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone, even for the price, which was about $125. To my eye, it looks MUCH dressier than either of the two Akubras I own ( speaking expressly of the look of the felt, as both Akubras are "country'' type hats ), and it's certainly more pleasing in the tactile sense. Many more "nice hat"s with that one than most others ( old Resistol a distant first...). As far as currently manufactured hats, the only reason I am disinclined to buy more Stetsons is their very modern appearance, block-wise. I like the Akubra block shapes, and you're certainly getting value for your money there. But if I'm going out, it's either gonna be vintage, or newer Stetson ( as I can't yet pull the trigger on custom ).

 

[Yohanes]

hat will help during the rain, if you have raincoat as well of course lol

But really, I've tried this - wearing a Stetson Andes and a trench coat on a very heavy rain. My head stays dry, although my shoes and pants are not that dry

Stetson Andes is indeed a rain hat though Don't really like the style now, but if anyone asks its effectiveness in repelling water, yes it's quite effective

 

[Spellflower]

On rain, I still don't understand how hats help in the rain.

I look at a hat's rain-worthiness from two perspectives:

First, is it a liability in the rain? If it's going to get dye all over my shirt when I get caught in a storm, then it is unacceptable in this regard, as it becomes something I have to worry about when to wear, and how to protect.

Second, is it an asset in the rain? Am I better off with it on my head than without it? To answer this question, I did an informal test of my own.

It just happened to be raining in Brooklyn, today, and so, like J.T., whose wife looked at him funny for not using an umbrella on Sunday, I eschewed the confused looks I got, and walked from my car to the school with my hat in hand.

It wasn't a completely miserable experience, but it wasn't pleasant. The rain covered my face and made me blink, and I had to wipe my brow frequently. I was also colder. When I put the hat back on, I hardly noticed the rain, as it wasn't in my face, and my head was warmer.

A good hat doesn't just keep your hair dry, it keeps your whole head dry, and prevents water from rolling down your back keeping your shirt dryer than if you went out with nothing. No, it doesn't keep your pants dry, but neither do umbrellas. At least a hat is always on my head, and not something I have to remember to bring along.

Think about it this way: you wear shoes over your feet, pants over your legs, a shirt/jacket over the rest of you- why leave your head exposed, when it's the first thing to encounter the rain? Also, would you wear shoes that leaked dye if they happened to get wet?

Come to think of it, a friend of mine had some tye-dyed Chuck Taylors, and that's what happened. Needless to say, it was the last pair he bought.

Oh, and for the record, I've had a buzz cut longer than I've worn fedoras, and I haven't worn mascara since my Rocky Horror Picture Show days.

 

[T Jones]

Uhu gave me his modern premier quality Stetson Whippet. I participated in the modern Whippet thread where Uhu expressed his disappointment in the hat. In fact, I read more complaints regarding the Premier Stetson Stratoliner as well. The modern Premier Whippet I now have is advertised as having vintage like felt, a 5 1/2 inch Open Crown and a 2 1/2 inches brim width. I think that's the only brim width it comes in, and I believe the modern Premier Strat has those same dimensions(?) What I like about the Whippet I have, the "Natural" color, the dark brown contrasting ribbon, and the decent sweat band with the retro Royal Stetson logo. Beyond that, the modern Stetson Premier lives up the disappointments expressed by Uhu and others. To everyone who owns and handles actual vintage hats will know right away that the modern Premier falls far short of vintage quality. The brim has no snap. The crown is soft but too thick to get a decent crease out of it. All I can say is that I'm glad that I didn't shell out better than $200 for one of these hats. I would have been pi$$ed! My advise, if you want something that looks like a Whippet or a Strat, have it custom made. Mike Miller at North West Hats or Gannon can make up one of those for the same money, and in Beaver felt! My rating on this modern Stetson Premier Whippet is a great big, "Hell No". Spend your money on something better!

I'm going to make it a project hat. I took it apart and put it on a 5 3/4 block to raise the crown height. I was also able to stretch out the brim to retain the 2 1/2 width. After it dries I'm going to pounce it down a bit and see what I can do with it. If you have to go this far with one of those hats, it's not worth having...just too bad that some put out good money for one of these.

My attempt at trying to crease it yesterday. The fact that Uhu offered me the hat a gift was a very nice gesture. I knew he was disappointed with it and he was struggling to crease it. My intention was to crease it and send it back to him for his generosity.

 

[Redfokker]

Uhu gave me his modern premier quality Stetson Whippet. I participated in the modern Whippet thread where Uhu expressed his disappointment in the hat. In fact, I read more complaints regarding the Premier Stetson Stratoliner as well. The modern Premier Whippet I now have is advertised as having vintage like felt, a 5 1/2 inch Open Crown and a 2 1/2 inches brim width. I think that's the only brim width it comes in, and I believe the modern Premier Strat has those same dimensions(?) What I like about the Whippet I have, the "Natural" color, the dark brown contrasting ribbon, and the decent sweat band with the retro Royal Stetson logo. Beyond that, the modern Stetson Premier lives up the disappointments expressed by Uhu and others. To everyone who owns and handles actual vintage hats will know right away that the modern Premier falls far short of vintage quality. The brim has no snap. The crown is soft but too thick to get a decent crease out of it. All I can say is that I'm glad that I didn't shell out better than $200 for one of these hats. I would have been pi$$ed! My advise, if you want something that looks like a Whippet or a Strat, have it custom made. Mike Miller at North West Hats or Gannon can make up one of those for the same money, and in Beaver felt! My rating on this modern Stetson Premier Whippet is a great big, "Hell No". Spend your money on something better!

I'm going to make it a project hat. I took it apart and put it on a 5 3/4 block to raise the crown height. I was also able to stretch out the brim to retain the 2 1/2 width. After it dries I'm going to pounce it down a bit and see what I can do with it. If you have to go this far with one of those hats, it's not worth having...just too bad that some put out good money for one of these.

My attempt at trying to crease it yesterday. The fact that Uhu offered me the hat a gift was a very nice gesture. I knew he was disappointed with it and he was struggling to crease it. My intention was to crease it and send it back to him for his generosity.

My Sage "Excellent" quality Strat that I got from Moon is a nice go-to hat. It is soft, but I haven't tried to alter the famous Moon Diamond that it arrived with. What I find lacking in the modern vs vintage hats is the little details. The printing on the sweat is just that, no embossing, just some rather mediocre "printing". The liner logo is of this same type, just not quite as nice as even a 1960s hat. I love this Strat for everyday wear, it fit like a glove. Not having a mega-dollar 40s-50s Stratoliner to really compare it to, I really am just going from my limited experience. This restoration of a new hat is going to be super TJ, it is a pity that it is necessary.

 

[Uhu]

Glad to see this hat getting the patented "T Jones Treatment."

I have one of the wool felt Stetson "Whippets." Not a great hat, but not a bad hat for the money, and a good knockaround. So I figured a "premier" would be so much better and I shelled out the dough. 7 weeks for delivery because sold out... hey that's gotta be a good sign, right? Wrong. What I got was a totally unwearable. I love my original Whippet, this one gave me a fright when I looked in the mirror!

Looked nothing at all like a Whippet should. Wasn't really sure why that was, the proportions were a little bit off compared to my original, but not enough to explain why this hat looked as lame as it did. I tried experimenting with the bash but it simply did not react the way vintage felt would. The felt is the issue.

As I mentioned in the modern Whippet thread, I believe Stetson wanted to market this hat as a "premier" item and so selected-- without any respect for the original Whippet-- what they consider a "premier" felt, soft, thick and leathery. This may work for Western hats, but a definite bad choice for a reproduction vintage fedora. Like Terry said, it doesn't crease like vintage felt and there is no snap to the brim! Hel-lo? Its supposed to be a fedora! A fedora ain't a fedora if it doesn't have a little snap!

I just wanted to stomp it and leave it on the curb with the trash, but then I decided it would be more fun to see what T Jones might do with it. I enjoyed his Western conversions on the forum, wanted to see what potential it might have in the hands of an experienced hat tinkerer. Its definitely looking better. But personally I'm done with modern Stetsons. Vintage Stetsons are Cadillacs, well built, sharp looking hats with attitude. The modern Stetsons don't bear any resemblance to them.

I agree with Terry's recommendation that a custom hat maker is a far better source for a reproduction Stetson, a far, far better hat and a better experience for not much more money. Anyone else have a Stetson "Premier" repro Whippet? What's your experience?

 

[Frunobulax]

There has been much written about the Premiere and Excellent Quality Stetsons which have been sold by Hatco for the past several years. Most notably:

2015 Stetson Excellent Quality GREEN THIN RIBBON (Preview & Review)

NEW STETSON 2015 Dress catalog

The Stratoliner Association {Premiere}

Open Crown Stetsons: A Call (Plea) to Retailers!!

The Stratoliner Appreciation Club {MODERN}

And here's an interesting thread started by Joshbru3 way back when

What Hatco COULD produce with modern materials and different blocks

After having purchased two Royal Deluxe Quality Stetsons (Stetsonian and Racine), while I agree hey are not of vintage quality, and of course the price is high, I am still satisfied with my purchases. I guess it's a matter of expectations. I wouldn't consider the newer, higher quality Stetsons failures, or "lame," but they could certainly do better.Even my customs are not of "vintage quality," though they are nicer than my Stetsons. I would steer somebody to a custom if they were going to spend ~$300 on a lid.

I have also been told by my local hatter that the return rate on new Stetsons is close to 50%. This is before they hit the sales floor. She indicated that every shipment must be gone over with a fine tooth comb to ensure what she displays is a quality product. Mr. Miller at Batsakes won't even carry Stetson fur felts any longer, and has pointed words to say about their quality if you ask.

I am interested to see what you can do with this hat, Terry - particularly with pouncing it to a thinner felt. This will be a compelling project, and worth following closely. I look forward to further posts.

 

[T Jones]

Glad to see this hat getting the patented "T Jones Treatment."

I have one of the wool felt Stetson "Whippets." Not a great hat, but not a bad hat for the money, and a good knockaround. So I figured a "premier" would be so much better and I shelled out the dough. 7 weeks for delivery because sold out... hey that's gotta be a good sign, right? Wrong. What I got was a totally unwearable. I love my original Whippet, this one gave me a fright when I looked in the mirror!

Looked nothing at all like a Whippet should. Wasn't really sure why that was, the proportions were a little bit off compared to my original, but not enough to explain why this hat looked as lame as it did. I tried experimenting with the bash but it simply did not react the way vintage felt would. The felt is the issue.

As I mentioned in the modern Whippet thread, I believe Stetson wanted to market this hat as a "premier" item and so selected-- without any respect for the original Whippet-- what they consider a "premier" felt, soft, thick and leathery. This may work for Western hats, but a definite bad choice for a reproduction vintage fedora. Like Terry said, it doesn't crease like vintage felt and there is no snap to the brim! Hel-lo? Its supposed to be a fedora! A fedora ain't a fedora if it doesn't have a little snap!

I just wanted to stomp it and leave it on the curb with the trash, but then I decided it would be more fun to see what T Jones might do with it. I enjoyed his Western conversions on the forum, wanted to see what potential it might have in the hands of an experienced hat tinkerer. Its definitely looking better. But personally I'm done with modern Stetsons. Vintage Stetsons are Cadillacs, well built, sharp looking hats with attitude. The modern Stetsons don't bear any resemblance to them.

I agree with Terry's recommendation that a custom hat maker is a far better source for a reproduction Stetson, a far, far better hat and a better experience for not much more money. Anyone else have a Stetson "Premier" repro Whippet? What's your experience?

Thanks again for the hat, Dave. I really appreciate it.

 

[T Jones]

Thanks guys. It'll make for an interesting project. I have the open crown raised up to 5 3/4 and I was able to retain the 2 1/2 brim width. Im also interested in seeing how it turns out, too.

As far as the other modern Stetsons like the Excellent Quality or the Royal Stetson I can't answer to, having never handled one. The Stetsonian definitely looks interesting and I like the advertised dimensions of that one, but quality wise, I don't know. The Premier, however, is a different story. Definitely not worth the money someone would pay for it.

 

[FedOregon]

Uhu gave me his modern premier quality Stetson Whippet. I participated in the modern Whippet thread where Uhu expressed his disappointment in the hat. In fact, I read more complaints regarding the Premier Stetson Stratoliner as well. The modern Premier Whippet I now have is advertised as having vintage like felt, a 5 1/2 inch Open Crown and a 2 1/2 inches brim width. I think that's the only brim width it comes in, and I believe the modern Premier Strat has those same dimensions(?) What I like about the Whippet I have, the "Natural" color, the dark brown contrasting ribbon, and the decent sweat band with the retro Royal Stetson logo. Beyond that, the modern Stetson Premier lives up the disappointments expressed by Uhu and others. To everyone who owns and handles actual vintage hats will know right away that the modern Premier falls far short of vintage quality. The brim has no snap. The crown is soft but too thick to get a decent crease out of it. All I can say is that I'm glad that I didn't shell out better than $200 for one of these hats. I would have been pi$$ed! My advise, if you want something that looks like a Whippet or a Strat, have it custom made. Mike Miller at North West Hats or Gannon can make up one of those for the same money, and in Beaver felt! My rating on this modern Stetson Premier Whippet is a great big, "Hell No". Spend your money on something better!

I'm going to make it a project hat. I took it apart and put it on a 5 3/4 block to raise the crown height. I was also able to stretch out the brim to retain the 2 1/2 width. After it dries I'm going to pounce it down a bit and see what I can do with it. If you have to go this far with one of those hats, it's not worth having...just too bad that some put out good money for one of these.

My attempt at trying to crease it yesterday. The fact that Uhu offered me the hat a gift was a very nice gesture. I knew he was disappointed with it and he was struggling to crease it. My intention was to crease it and send it back to him for his generosity.

It looks darn good from where I'm sitting... what does a fella pounce hats with, anyway?

 

[T Jones]

It looks darn good from where I'm sitting... what does a fella pounce hats with, anyway?

Varying grits of sandpaper. I'll use sanding sponges on some applications, too.

 

[hatsRme]

Sandpaper, Doug.

Oops. Too late.

 

[Frunobulax]

Thanks guys. It'll make for an interesting project. I have the open crown raised up to 5 3/4 and I was able to retain the 2 1/2 brim width. Im also interested in seeing how it turns out, too.

As far as the other modern Stetsons like the Excellent Quality or the Royal Stetson I can't answer to, having never handled one. The Stetsonian definitely looks interesting and I like the advertised dimensions of that one, but quality wise, I don't know. The Premier, however, is a different story. Definitely not worth the money someone would pay for it.

Well, it's no secret I like my Stetsonian, but it "suffers" from some of the same qualities you and Uhu are taking issue with. The felt is thick, it won't take a crisp crease, and though the brim has some snap, something tells me you wouldn't be happy with it.

Someday, Terry, you and I have to hook up and compare notes. Columbus isn't that far from Dayton.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[moontheloon]

I have a modern Premier Strat that is wonderful ... granted I had to go through a pile of them to find one that was up to my low standards of a modern production hat

but it is really nice and soft ... plenty malleable ... and quite comfortable

there were probably 7 or 8 in my size at JJ at the time and almost everyone one of them had an open crown that was different from the next ... as was the quality

very odd to say the least

that hat looks great Terry ... nice job !!!

 

[Frunobulax]

I have a modern Premier Strat that is wonderful ... granted I had to go through a pile of them to find one that was up to my low standards of a modern production hat

but it is really nice and soft ... plenty malleable ... and quite comfortable

there were probably 7 or 8 in my size at JJ at the time and almost everyone one of them had an open crown that was different from the next ... as was the quality

very odd to say the least

that hat looks great Terry ... nice job !!!

Yeah, I didn't mention the "birthing" process of my Stetsonian. That was painful!


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[moontheloon]

Yeah, I didn't mention the "birthing" process of my Stetsonian. That was painful!


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

I remember it ... grueling

 

[FedOregon]

Interesting stuff here. I'm taking in what you've posted, and seeing the differences in the 2 Penman Everyman hats I have. This is not a comparison of vintage and modern. It's a comparison of felts and construction of hats made in the U.S. versus other countries.

The first Everyman hat I bought (The Indy style) was constructed by a hat company in another country... Brazil? Not sure. The felt is advertised as a 80/20 blend of rabbit/beaver. It really is a nice piece of felt, and took a bash with minimal steam and a few seconds to crease at the hands of John Penman. I love the hat and would put it up against most anything modern except a pure beaver custom from a skilled hatter. The deep brown color looks amazing and I get compliments on the hat every time I wear it in public.

In comparison, the non-Indy hat in Granite isn't in the same league. It's made right here in the U.S. And while I absolutely love the color, with it's tones of grey and brown, the hand is not comparable, the pouncing is not comparable and the fit is off. John had to pick out a hat sized by the U.S. factory at 7-5/8. The 7-1/2 was way too small. Go figure. The other thing that is sooooo striking is the prolonged, almost brute, effort John took to get the hat into a nice diamond crease. No kidding, he worked on it for 10-15 minutes before it was creased satisfactorily. It's thick, stubborn felt compared to the imported Indy hat.

Now, I still like the Granite "Casablanca," as I like to call it, and I find myself grabbing this hat more than any other hat right now. I'm not afraid to get it wet (like my "Imperial Ultimate" modern Stetson), it goes with nearly every bit of clothing I own, and looks darn pretty sharp. But it's not in the same class as the imported Everyman Indy hat.

 

[RJR]

Interesting stuff here. I'm taking in what you've posted, and seeing the differences in the 2 Penman Everyman hats I have. This is not a comparison of vintage and modern. It's a comparison of felts and construction of hats made in the U.S. versus other countries.

The first Everyman hat I bought (The Indy style) was constructed by a hat company in another country... Brazil? Not sure. The felt is advertised as a 80/20 blend of rabbit/beaver. It really is a nice piece of felt, and took a bash with minimal steam and a few seconds to crease at the hands of John Penman. I love the hat and would put it up against most anything modern except a pure beaver custom from a skilled hatter. The deep brown color looks amazing and I get compliments on the hat every time I wear it in public.

In comparison, the non-Indy hat in Granite isn't in the same league. It's made right here in the U.S. And while I absolutely love the color, with it's tones of grey and brown, the hand is not comparable, the pouncing is not comparable and the fit is off. John had to pick out a hat sized by the U.S. factory at 7-5/8. The 7-1/2 was way too small. Go figure. The other thing that is sooooo striking is the prolonged, almost brute, effort John took to get the hat into a nice diamond crease. No kidding, he worked on it for 10-15 minutes before it was creased satisfactorily. It's thick, stubborn felt compared to the imported Indy hat.

Now, I still like the Granite "Casablanca," as I like to call it, and I find myself grabbing this hat more than any other hat right now. I'm not afraid to get it wet (like my "Imperial Ultimate" modern Stetson), it goes with nearly every bit of clothing I own, and looks darn pretty sharp. But it's not in the same class as the imported Everyman Indy hat.

Interesting info.

 

[Uhu]

Funny, I have a Stetsonian, I like the felt much better than the so called "premier" material of this repro Whippet. Seems to be different felt than Fruno's Stetsonian. The felt on mine is thin and a little floppy. Takes a bash, not great, but OK. I have a vintage Borsalino that is very similar, right down to the dimensions and the floppy felt. If this Whippet had been made from the same felt as the Stetsonian I have (as I was expecting it to be when I ordered it) it may have been a respectable hat out of the box. Odd, huh? As for the Stetsonian, it looks OK on the shelf, but its a big hat for a big guy, and looks ridiculous on me. Also have a Stetson Temple, one of my early attempts at finding a "real" fedora. Felt seems OK, but the tapered design is doofy IMHO. I'm not gonna be taking any more chances on modern Stetsons. Only if I can handle one in person would I consider buying another.