If you only had one old rifle, which?

[Diamondback]

That's another thing I notice about you firearms loyalists...poor taste in adult beverages (not to mention poor timing of same).

Them's fightin' words, sir--I can't even stand the SMELL of beer... let alone the look of it! Make mine a Collins or a Gimlet every time...

 

[Jovan]

Don't drink and shoot!

 

[Diamondback]

Don't drink and shoot!

Yeah, the drinkin's after the guns are all locked up... Of course, I don't drink but maybe once or twice a season anyway...lol

 

[Erik]

A Winchester Model 70 Classic chambered in .270, .308, or 30-06 would fit your bill nicely.

 

[Jovan]

Try telling that to Leonard and Bubba. And so I don't get smacked with a deleted post, I'm not stereotyping, I'm referring to a certain stereotyping video game.

 

[The Wingnut]

That's another thing I notice about you firearms loyalists...poor taste in adult beverages (not to mention poor timing of same).

Fletch, are you honestly TRYING to start a fight? You just collectively insulted the wisdom and taste of every firearms owner on this site, some of which don't even drink, and of those who do drink, a number still do not drink beer(myself included), and none of them (I have faith, at least) would be foolish enough to mix the two!

 

[Undertow]

Fletch, are you honestly TRYING to start a fight? You just collectively insulted the wisdom and taste of every firearms owner on this site, some of which don't even drink, and of those who do drink, a number still do not drink beer(myself included), and none of them (I have faith, at least) would be foolish enough to mix the two!

Thank you. My sentiments exactly.

 

[Jovan]

Guys, he was clearly only kidding...

 

[Undertow]

Guys, he was clearly only kidding...

Clearly. I don't doubt that Fletch enjoys a good discussion. I think anyone on the receiving end of his previous statement probably had a taste of the following in the Observation Bar:

I put it to all of you that more than anything else, guns - especially handguns - are a political statement anymore.

I further put it to you that handgun owners are without exception political people, and overwhelmingly politically conservative (barring the occasional libertarian).

-They by and large believe in clearly separate and prescribed roles for men and women - especially for men; they're likely to use the word men where others might say people.
-They believe things about the society they live in that convince them that they will likely, perhaps inevitably, encounter violent crime.
-They believe in simple, black-and-white definitions of right and wrong, the existence of "evil" as a living thing that transcends the circumstances of people's actions, and the need for strict, ideally male or masculine-acting, authority figures.
-They believe that the use of violence in certain situations is not only inevitable, but necessary and to be encouraged.
-They distrust methods of nonviolent conflict resolution, and believe deeply in the concept of "weakness." They fear weakness in their own lives and in society, as much or perhaps more than violence.

Agree?
Disagree?
What is your experience and/or opinion?

I don't think anyone was offended, but I can see why a few might have felt defensive.

Heck, I think Fletch is alright...I can't speak for the other guys but I just want to make sure the records stayed straight, i.e. drinking (bad beer at that) + guns = bad. No worries

So about that Winchester 70 .30-06...wasn't that the model army snipers used during Vietnam?

 

[Fatdutchman]

Marines. The Army used (uses) M14's, among other things.

 

[JohnTheGreek]

The Rational Choice

As someone who has been through a lot of rifles in his day, I think the "one rifle" idea is a good one that depends largely upon which "era" you consider "classic". You might really like the WWII and so the M1 Garand is a good choice ( www.odcmp.com ). You might really be into the 19th century safari look so then a four bore muzzleloader is tops ( www.gefrohbigbores.com ) . You might prefer an early/mid 20th century sportsman look....then the Model 70 or Commercial Mauser is the rational choice ( www.rifleactions.com ). Maybe you are a cowboy type...then the Wnchester 94 or Colt Lightning should be right up your alley ( www.usfirearms.com ). The possibilities are nearly endless

That said, if you are looking to get into shooting and maybe hunting, and want something classic (yet modern) and durable and practical and reasonably priced to purchase and feed, I think Erik has it right with the Model 70 in .308 Win. Here's why....Its a darn classy rifle, is durable as all get-out and .308 Win ammo can be purchased by the 1000 round case for a very reasonable price. Finally, the round will be good to hunt the largest animals in North America when loaded with 190 or 200 grain bullets or you can load very lightweight bullets for coyotes and ground grizzlies (prairie dogs). True, the 30-06 is perhaps a slightly more classic round, but I think .308 ammo is just a bit more available. Finally, with all respect to Jack O'Connor, I never really cared for the .270.

Best of Luck.

John

 

[Undertow]

And from what I understand, .308 is more accurate, a little easier on recoil (depending on all variables of course) and currently the choice of most snipers using lower-medium sized bores (which discounts the .50bmg guys, etc).

I've never had the fortune of shooting a .308 but if I had the opportunity to purchase another rifle, I would do it right and get a .308 heavy barrel with all the bells and whistles I could afford.

 

[Fatdutchman]

I'm a 7mm Mauser fan...

 

[Doug C]

Guy's thanks for ALL the advice and suggestions, please continue the discussion. Don't think that I've not taken it to heart, I am still weighing and sifting all the info. and will continue to do so. There is some very though-out posts here and I really apreciate the links as well :eusa_clap !! I now believe that in the end I'll have more than one. Will be looking into the suggestion regarding the NRA and looking for locals with guns to shoot too. Thanks again folks.

Doug C

 

[Rooster]

I now believe that in the end I'll have more than one.

HA! There's the ticket!:eusa_clap

 

[carebear]

I now believe that in the end I'll have more than one.

The answer I give to the question "How many guns do you need?" is always, "Just one more."

The .308 isn't any more inherently accurate AFAIK, it will just fit in a shorter action, which leads to a slightly more compact and lighter rifle with a shorter, and thus faster, bolt stroke.

Once the military dropped the .30-06 it was almost inevitable the snipers would change over.

 

[JohnTheGreek]

I've always liked the 7mm Mauser and WDM Bell showed its versatility on everything from Duiker to Elephant. When it comes to general ammo availability, cost, and bullet variety however, it's tough to beat the .308 Win. I also like the 30-06 and, while this is not strictly true, it is for most practical purposes the same as a .308 ballistically. A friend of mine likes to say that the .308 IS the .30-06 plus 100 yards. There's a lot of truth to that. Can't say there's really much on this planet a .308 can't kill with the right bullet and proper shot placement. A whole lot of cape buffalo have been culled in Africa with the 7.62 NATO pushing 147 grain military ball ammo much less 220 grain solids. In fact, shortly before he died, Bell stated (American Rifleman, December 1954) that if he had it all to do again, he would hunt Africa with a .308 win throwing heavy bullets. Gone are the days, of course, as the minimum legal bullet diameter is either .366 or .375 (depending on the country) for dangerous game. Still, that's a heck of an endorsement from the greatest elephant hunter ever.

As for inherent accuracy, it seems that the difference between the .308 and 30-06 actually prompted substantial reductions in the scoring ring diameters for NRA high power matches. Seems guys were shooting tie breakers at long range and not breaking the ties with a high degree of regularity. Solution, reduce the size of the bullseye to reflect more accurate rounds and weaponry. This is also a heck of an endorsement for the .308. Of course, it means absolutely nothing in the realm of hunting. If while hunting, the accuracy differential between these two rounds becomes relevant, the one holding the rifle really needs to get closer to the quarry. That's why it's called "hunting" and not "shooting" eh!

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.asp

Best,

John

 

[Undertow]

If while hunting, the accuracy differential between these two rounds becomes relevant, the one holding the rifle really needs to get closer to the quarry. That's why it's called "hunting" and not "shooting" eh!

Haha! lol

 

[WH1]

JP Sauer drilling in 16 gauge/9.3x74R or 12 gauge/30-06
or an old classic like the winchester 71 deluxe lever action in .348
or the winchester 1895 in 30-06.

 

[JohnTheGreek]

I could go for a drilling....twin 9,3x74R tubes over a 12 guage for Africa. That would be SWEET. Of course for North America, twin 30-06 or .308 tubes would be a bit more practical. I know, I know...rimless cartridges in a break action are suspect but brass is just so much easier to find.

Best,

John