ID'ing horsehide, other leathers

[Alan Eardley]

However, I believe that the US Army did a series of tests between the wars in which horsehide beat cowhide on most counts (and if I remember rightly goatskin won hands down). I’m pretty sure this is why horse was selected for the A-2...unfortunately I can’t find the source at the moment to check.

Of course, controlled long term tests have never been done and probably couldn’t be done, but my own experience based on the hundreds of leather jackets I’ve handled over the years is that horsehide does seem to wear better than cow. I‘m also inclined to think that cow is more susceptible to red-rot as well. And yes, my experience tallies with the US Army tests: goatskin seems to wear better than either.

Yes, in Britain horsehide was rarely used pre-Eastman/Aero. Nor did we favour heavy hides for leather jackets until the mid-1950s. Most of the 1930s-40s era British leather jackets I’ve had have been made from (by US standards) fairly lightweight leathers. Labels never say what leather, but my feeling is that they are often calf, kid or lamb.

Sweeting refers to the tests in Compat Flying Clothing. Infuriatingly, he gives the date they started (September 1930) but only says that, 'Leather came out best...' implying that the other materials were textiles. I think it is Parsons and Nelson in Hell Bent for Leather who list the different leathers in terms of durability (they rate goat higher than horse and horse higher than cow) but they don't quote a source and since kangaroo leather is on their list I'm inclined to think it wasn't September 1930! Neither source described the tests, but abrasion seems to feature.

With probably similar experience to yourself, I would agree with your feelings about the ranking. Red rot (or heat) is a bacterial infection and is usually attributed to poor storage before the tanning process starts. I have noticed that sheepskin seems very proned to it, but I have never considered that cow may be more prone that horse. Maybe you're right.

Lightweight leathers are probably tougher because they are usually top grain split (goat almost invariably is) and there is less internal friction to break them down. Yes, old British and German garment manufacturers rarely if ever refered to the hide their garments are made from. That makes you wonder if the tanners did either... Calf was very popular for short jackets with small panels, which, coincidentally, is the most like horsehide in consistency and appearance...

Alan

 

[jacketquest]

Alan,

I thoroughly enjoyed your leather treatise. I cannot argue your logical points wrt the relative merits of horse vs steer. However one thing has always intrigued me, namely that horsehide was often used (and proudly proclaimed on the garment labels) in top quality vintage jackets. If there was little difference, why bother to specifically call out that a garment was constructed of a particular leather? Or why even bother to state the leather content at all? Was it simply a byproduct of marketing in that era, i.e. was the public led to believe that horsehide was a superior garment material?

 

[patterson]

Haven't read all the posts, but once the leather is tanned the genetic material is gone/toast. Old steer and hh would be impossible to tell apart at that point. Goat would be the simplest just because of the pebbled skin and inherent waterproof nature. Lamb is not waterproof and was only used for A1's (cape leather)... I've heard of original cape A1's existing, but have never seen one that I would still call a jacket - more like something that used to be a jacket...

Hope this helps and is not redundant...

 

[patterson]

Also, on the "toughness" scale - we did some work a few years back and worked with an association of tanneries in gathering data for IndyGear. Cowhide is actually pretty far down the list in strength.

1. Kangaroo
2. Goatskin
3. Horsehide
4. Deerskin
5. Cowhide
6. Lambskin

This is not a comprehensive list of all the leathers they tested and published strength metrics for, however the first three above were the top three listed. They measured tensile strength (resistance of a material to a force tending to tear it apart) and resistance to abrasion. Cow measured low on tensile strength (it is actually pretty easy to tear) and on abrasion (though as it tends to be relatively thicker than other leathers it is still commonly used for things like motorcycle jackets.

Kangaroo and goat were by far the leaders - having extreme resistance to abrasion and tearing because the are just so dense. Two interesting ones were lamb and deer. Lamb is extremely dense - almost as dense as goat, but is extremely susceptible to lateral tearing and punctures by sharp objects. Deerskin is almost a cross between lamb and cow - it breaths but is still dense. It is extremely resistant to abrasion below the top layer. It is also a very popular choice for motorcycle jackets.

Just kind of a brain-dump from memory of the info we gathered... I'll see if I can find the pdf we received...

 

[Alan Eardley]

Alan,

I thoroughly enjoyed your leather treatise. I cannot argue your logical points wrt the relative merits of horse vs steer. However one thing has always intrigued me, namely that horsehide was often used (and proudly proclaimed on the garment labels) in top quality vintage jackets. If there was little difference, why bother to specifically call out that a garment was constructed of a particular leather? Or why even bother to state the leather content at all? Was it simply a byproduct of marketing in that era, i.e. was the public led to believe that horsehide was a superior garment material?

Because people paid more for horsehide in the US. It's subjective and cultural. Horsehide sold well in the US, but not in the UK, where specific mention of h***e on labels was generally avoided as horses were looked on as pets. In Spain they made things from dogskin. That doesn't go down well in the US or the UK!

There are so many variables when judging leather. The difference in strength between samples may show up in a laboratory test, but I think you'd find it difficult to wear enough leather jackets in one lifetime (I have been at it for around 50 years) to produce measurable results in normal wear.

There's a subjective overview of the horse & cow difference on Lost Worlds' website. The conclusions (that horse becomes more different from cow as it ages) go against what many people believe, however.

Alan

 

[Alan Eardley]

DNA

Haven't read all the posts, but once the leather is tanned the genetic material is gone/toast. Old steer and hh would be impossible to tell apart at that point. Goat would be the simplest just because of the pebbled skin and inherent waterproof nature. Lamb is not waterproof and was only used for A1's (cape leather)... I've heard of original cape A1's existing, but have never seen one that I would still call a jacket - more like something that used to be a jacket...

Hope this helps and is not redundant...

Thanks. I agree, but remember that it is common to 'plate' calf (or split cow) to look like goat. Sometimes very convincingly. The 'hand' of goat is usually more 'crisp' than either calf or cow. It is more dense, but this can be imitated (at least in the short term) by heavy rolling.

BTW, being pedantic, the genetic material has not 'gone', it is still there, but much more difficult to isolate and extract.

Alan