I remember when.....

[Tomasso]

True. He made a fortune speculating in Coca-Cola stock in the early twenties, but he got his initial bankroll to do it from the Detroit Tigers.

Actually, his salary didn't amount to much in the early days so I imagine most of his investment capital came from his wife, who brought a fortune into the marriage. He acquired his first block of Coca-Cola stock in 1907 in lieu of a cash payment from the company for an endorsement deal. He acquired his United Motors (GM) stock in the same manner. His endorsement income was greater than his baseball salary for most of his career. And all the while he was making some deft plays in the commodity markets as well.

While being a ball player was certainly advantageous and marrying well didn't hurt, I think he displayed enough business acumen to become wealthy on his own account. He applied the same dogged determination to his business pursuits as he did to his play on the baseball diamond.

BTW, he left the bulk of his estate to his children so it says a lot about them if they chose not to attend his funeral while accepting their inheritance.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Actually, his salary didn't amount to much in the early days so I imagine most of his investment capital came from his wife, who brought a fortune into the marriage. He acquired his first block of Coca-Cola stock in 1907 in lieu of a cash payment from the company for an endorsement deal. He acquired his United Motors (GM) stock in the same manner. His endorsement income was greater than his baseball salary for most of his career. And all the while he was making some deft plays in the commodity markets as well.

It depends on how you define "amount to much". In his first few years, Cobb earned an average of $2,000-$3,000 per year, at a time when the average working man earned $400-500 per year. By the time he was 25, he was earning $10,000+ per year and that quickly jumped to $20,000 in a few more. So he was making 50 times the average working man. It wasn't as if he was playing for peanuts.

He applied the same dogged determination to his business pursuits as he did to his play on the baseball diamond.

"Dogged determination" is certainly one way to describe it. Another way would be "maniacal sociopathy".

BTW, he left the bulk of his estate to his children so it says a lot about them if they chose not to attend his funeral while accepting their inheritance.

I don't know if the old story about his children not attending is true or not. But he was not mourned in the baseball community. Only three old-timers showed up to his funeral, and many who didn't commented they were glad the old SOB was finally dead.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't know if the old story about his children not attending is true or not. But he was not mourned in the baseball community. Only three old-timers showed up to his funeral, and many who didn't commented they were glad the old SOB was finally dead.

A lot of the "Cobb was the meanest man who ever lived" stuff was circulated by Al Stump, who made up a lot of it out of whole cloth. (The "Cobb Diaries" Stump supposedly used in writing his two books were later revealed to be forgeries created by Stump himself). One of those stories was that Cobb had beaten a man to death in an alley near Navin Field in 1912 for trying to rob him at knife point, but a later investigation by a member of the Society for American Baseball Research found no evidence of any blunt-force trauma deaths anywhere in Detroit when the incident is supposed to have happened.

There's a good debunking of a lot of the commonly-understood Cobbology in this recent article from Smithsonian magazine.

Not that Tyrus was any kind of a nice guy. There's an increasing body of evidence to support accusations that in 1919 he and Tris Speaker, Dutch Leonard, and Smoky Joe Wood were involved in a game-throwing conspiracy. This affair was investigated by the commissioner's office in 1927, and because of the fame of the players involved was more or less swept under the rug, quite possibly because Judge Landis was afraid of what Cobb might do if he ruled against him.

 

[LizzieMaine]

But what about A-Rod?

 

[sheeplady]

It depends on how you define "amount to much". In his first few years, Cobb earned an average of $2,000-$3,000 per year, at a time when the average working man earned $400-500 per year. By the time he was 25, he was earning $10,000+ per year and that quickly jumped to $20,000 in a few more. So he was making 50 times the average working man. It wasn't as if he was playing for peanuts.

Well, that certainly is "peanuts" by today's standards. A-Rod's last contract was $275 million for 10 years. That's $27.5 million a year, at a time when the "average" wage is supposedly $50,000 a year (not the mode or median wage, but the average). That's only 550 times the average salary. (Which I am willing to bet is closer to $35 to 40,000 than 50.)

But then you should see what his bosses make.

 

[Tomasso]

It depends on how you define "amount to much".

That his baseball salary came nowhere near the amount needed to fund the investments he was making. The lion's share of his baseball related income came from endorsements and appearance fees, a situation not uncommon for the greats of sports and entertainment.

 

[LizzieMaine]

But then you should see what his bosses make.

Exactly. The days when Connie Mack or Charley Ebbets or Clark Griffith ran the local ball club as a small family business are long gone. Pro sports are now the stuff of mass-media combines, conglomerates, and vast corporate enterprises. Pro athletes are now the equivalent of movie actors and music stars, not Joe Dinnerpail.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

When the building of a new airport or factory was a source of local pride, not protests.

 

[Harp]

Pro sports are now the stuff of mass-media combines, conglomerates, and vast corporate enterprises.

And colleges and universities. The kids at Northwestern are kicking up some dust.

 

[sheeplady]

Exactly. The days when Connie Mack or Charley Ebbets or Clark Griffith ran the local ball club as a small family business are long gone. Pro sports are now the stuff of mass-media combines, conglomerates, and vast corporate enterprises. Pro athletes are now the equivalent of movie actors and music stars, not Joe Dinnerpail.

Yeah, that's one of the problems I see in sports. Whenever someone laments about how high paid some athlete is, I think about how much money those above him/ her are making. It is particularly bad in college sports, where athletes are "paid" with a scholarship and room and board, while their coaches make tons of money, and the university makes tons times fifty.

The students often end up with degrees that are unmarketable, with classes that they were pushed through just so they could qualify to be on the team. They graduate (if they graduate, because if they end up getting hurt their scholarship is gone) with a degree that is often worthless- full of "general education" classes that don't qualify them for a good job. The university makes money hand over fist from their athletes, while they are subject to being injured with little chance of turning pro.

Years ago I used to think, "Well, those students are getting a free degree! And tutoring help! And they are stars on campus! People are stupid if they think they should be paid more!" Then I saw some of the classes the students took, what happened if they could no longer play, and how much money universities were making off of these students. I'm not sure what should be done about it, but universities are doing these young adults a huge disservice.

Somebody can argue that these students are getting a "free" and "easy" degree compared to other students who have to take on debt, take difficult classes, and not get passed through. But I've come to disagree with that.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Yeah, that's one of the problems I see in sports. Whenever someone laments about how high paid some athlete is, I think about how much money those above him/ her are making. It is particularly bad in college sports, where athletes are "paid" with a scholarship and room and board, while their coaches make tons of money, and the university makes tons times fifty.

The students often end up with degrees that are unmarketable, with classes that they were pushed through just so they could qualify to be on the team. They graduate (if they graduate, because if they end up getting hurt their scholarship is gone) with a degree that is often worthless- full of "general education" classes that don't qualify them for a good job. The university makes money hand over fist from their athletes, while they are subject to being injured with little chance of turning pro.

Years ago I used to think, "Well, those students are getting a free degree! And tutoring help! And they are stars on campus! People are stupid if they think they should be paid more!" Then I saw some of the classes the students took, what happened if they could no longer play, and how much money universities were making off of these students. I'm not sure what should be done about it, but universities are doing these young adults a huge disservice.

Somebody can argue that these students are getting a "free" and "easy" degree compared to other students who have to take on debt, take difficult classes, and not get passed through. But I've come to disagree with that.

Big-time college sports are the biggest fraud going, and have been for the past fifty years, at least. Listen to some of the big-time college athletes giving interviews, sounding like they can barely speak English, and see just how "educated" they are.

I like the idea that they're going to be able to form a union at Northwestern. They're professionals, and it's high time the fraudulent illusion of "amateurism" was stripped away and they got a due share of the profits they're bringing into the schools. Even better, turn college sports into a professional minor-league development program for the major leagues, and leave schools to actual education.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

[video=youtube;hRQJUS6ZBoQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRQJUS6ZBoQ[/video]

Now as president of this fine college
I'd like to announce we've reached our goal
There's money in the bank and we've doubled enrollment
Since last year when we won the Banana Bowl
So it gives me joy to announce new projects
For the better education of all our youth
Seventeen new sports and a Super Dome fieldhouse
And a visitors' athletic information booth

We're dropping our English and Science departments
They didn't do well in the latest poll
Ninety-two percent of our enrollment
Say they're here to drink beer and cheer the Banana Bowl

Funds for these additions will come from dropping
Some obsolete courses that are moving slow
Like basic History and Economics
And other things not filmed for the TV halftime show
We'd like to thank sophomore John Rotgut
All American for what he's done
And announce him as new dean of the college
Don't turn pro till you've got an education, son
May I introduce three brand new members
Of our resident faculty
They'll teach First Aid and Social Graces
And still be sportscasters on network TV

We're dropping our English and Science departments
They didn't do well in the latest poll
Ninety-two percent of our enrollment
Say they're here to drink beer and cheer the Banana Bowl

Well, we're going to have a big brand new Coliseum
Yeah, and two backup marching bands
Twelve acres of asphalt for additional parking
On the site where the library now stands
The other day we rented the top floor of the Hilton
Six Cadillacs and a villa on the Bay
Just a tiny way of saying welcome
To them investigators from the NCAA

We're dropping our English and Science departments
They didn't do well in the latest poll
Ninety-two percent of our enrollment
Say they're here to drink beer and cheer the Banana Bowl

 

[HudsonHawk]

Well, that certainly is "peanuts" by today's standards. A-Rod's last contract was $275 million for 10 years. That's $27.5 million a year, at a time when the "average" wage is supposedly $50,000 a year (not the mode or median wage, but the average). That's only 550 times the average salary. (Which I am willing to bet is closer to $35 to 40,000 than 50.)

But then you should see what his bosses make.

No, Cobb wasn't earning what current players make, but I wouldn't say someone earning $2-3MM per year today is struggling either.

 

[HudsonHawk]

A lot of the "Cobb was the meanest man who ever lived" stuff was circulated by Al Stump, who made up a lot of it out of whole cloth.

A lot of the stories were certainly fabricated, but much of it also comes from his contemporaries. He was a well known and well hated psychopath during his lifetime, long before the stories published after his death.

 

[LizzieMaine]

A lot of the stories were certainly fabricated, but much of it also comes from his contemporaries. He was a well known and well hated psychopath during his lifetime, long before the stories published after his death.

No question. I'm just pointing out there's a certain amount of exaggeration in some of the stories that go around about him today. We know for a fact that he went into the stands to beat up a crippled heckler --so we really don't need stories that he killed a man in a dark alley with his bare hands to embellish his reputation as the Baddest Man In The Whole Damn Game.

Cobb's only challenger for that title might have been Leo Durocher, who once beat up a heckling fan with brass knuckles under the stands at Ebbets Field. Brooklyn being Brooklyn, he was acquitted of all charges.

 

[GHT]

HudsonHawk, your name on this thread, brings back some wonderful memories. I know that HudsonHawk was a movie character, although I really can't remember ever seeing the film, it's the name Hudson that inspires the reminisce.

At the end of WW2, my father, who could speak the four languages that the Nuremburg trials were held in, befriended an American officer, who was also recruited as translater for the said trials. That officer's name just doesn't come to mind, but Dad told me, much later, that the officer just wanted to get away from war torn Europe, and to that end, sold my Dad his car for a pittance . It was a Hudson, can't really remember the model, but it was something like a 1940 sedan.

For it's day, that car went like the wind. We kept it, up until the mid 1950's. Mother nearly passed out one time, when Dad overtook three cars at once. Remember, we drive on the left, and this was a left hand drive, so mother had a good vision of the cars coming the other way. How I wish that car went into storage.

 

[sheeplady]

I like the idea that they're going to be able to form a union at Northwestern. They're professionals, and it's high time the fraudulent illusion of "amateurism" was stripped away and they got a due share of the profits they're bringing into the schools. Even better, turn college sports into a professional minor-league development program for the major leagues, and leave schools to actual education.

Agreed.

 

[LizzieMaine]

No, Cobb wasn't earning what current players make, but I wouldn't say someone earning $2-3MM per year today is struggling either.

I think it's interesting to consider what star players made compared to run-of-the-mill players. Much was made of Babe Ruth's $80,000 salary in 1930 -- "think of it, he made more than Hoover! Yeah, well, he had a better year than Hoover." But he was the biggest star and the biggest drawing card in the game -- he made what he was worth. But while he was making that haul, a bottom-of-the-dugout Yankee like Bubbles Hargraves or Yats Weustling was making maybe $2000 a year, which was a good wage for a journeyman plumber or a factory foreman. These players were, in their own way, working stiffs as much as the people paying to see them, and it induced a certain sense of "we're all in this together" among those who played and those who watched.

The equivalent today might be for some humdrum roster-filler to earn $50,000 a year or so. The guy who folds the socks in the clubhouse might make that, but the average player makes a lot more than the average working American. As I say, I don't begrudge them that simply because of the cascade of cash being made by the owners due to huge local and network TV contracts, merchandising, and other such things that really didn't exist in the Era. (In the thirties, the Cubs *gave away* their radio rights to any station that wanted to air the games, as a public service. Imagine something like that today.)

But again, I wouldn't mind seeing the players express humility instead of the swaggering hubris we get now. There are players today who do show this attitude -- I've always admired Tim Wakefield for the way he carried himself and the way he made, and still makes, himself part of New England. It's just that there aren't enough of them, and I think that's part of what's killing the game.

 

[Harp]

Cobb's only challenger for that title might have been Leo Durocher, who once beat up a heckling fan with brass knuckles under the stands at Ebbets Field. Brooklyn being Brooklyn, he was acquitted of all charges.

Leo was ok, since he managed the Cubs-and the fan had brass knuckles.
And he appeared as himself in a cameo walk on in The Munsters.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Cobb's only challenger for that title might have been Leo Durocher, who once beat up a heckling fan with brass knuckles under the stands at Ebbets Field. Brooklyn being Brooklyn, he was acquitted of all charges.

Player-fan altercations used to be fairly common in those days, though few elevated to the Cobb level. In 1922, Babe Ruth was tossed out of a game in Washington for throwing dirt in an umpire's face. On his way off the field, a fan yelled and called him a "low-down bum". Ruth went nuts and climbed into the stands after the guy. Of course, the guy backed away, and others stopped Ruth from getting physical, but it earned the attention of Ban Johnson. After the game, a reporter was discussing the incident with Yankee management, comparing it to the Cobb incident. The official said this was different...Cobb beat the guy absolutely senseless while Ruth merely bawled him out. Ruth's "restraint" typically only earned a fine, not a suspension.