I bought and RMC Buco j-24 and found a scar on the leather. Help me determine if it’s considered character or not.

[zebedee]

I think it's perfectly normal to focus on details like these.

The more I pay for a product the more I expect the product, its details and the buying experience as a whole to be perfect. What else would I be paying big bucks for if not perfection and attention to detail?

If I go to a Michelin star restaurant I focus more on details than when eating at Denny's. Not only do I expect good tasting food, I also expect the dish to look good and my chair to be pulled out. Anything less and I'm dissatisfied.

As well you should. Each to his own, etc. I expect handmade items to have mistakes; I don't mind at all and, if people do, they should return said items to avoid nagging worries and fretting. Asking others for advice is generally zero sum when looking for validation unless the advisor capitulates to ease worry - which most people do, as worried people aren't much fun. I don't know whether being obsessively specific and exacting is normal - I genuinely mean that - and I wonder if perceived defects might not be more an issue of neurosis than of actual (unavoidable or corrected without people even knowing) flaws. But, it's up to individuals to decide.

 

[Marc mndt]

This isn't a QC issue, it's RMC trying to make 10 jackets instead of 8. And that's okay!

That's the question... Is that OK?

If I'm buying a pair of Gaziano and Girling shoes I'm paying for perfection. In order to deliver that perfection they only cut one or two pairs out of one hide.

Crockett and Jones (less than half the price of G&G) cuts four pairs out of one hide. They therefore may come with slight imperfections.

Now imagine my expensive G&G came with imperfections because they suddenly decided to cut three pairs out of one hide. Basically delivering C&J quality. I would be upset because I got C&J quality while paying G&G money.

That's what's happening here imo. Cost cutting while still charging top dollar for the jacket.

RMC doesn't make jackets out of passion. They're a money making business.

I disagree, i would say that 90% of my jackets have at least one mark similar to what is pointed out by the OP.

Non of my jackets have (clusters of) pockmarks.

 

[Damon141]

Maybe that other thread where Freewheelers has canceled delivery of some of their jacket reservations due to poor quality Shinki has something to do with unexpected flaws in jackets.

Looks like RMC is just trying to stay in the game. I’d rather see flaws rather than prices get as high as high end fashion brands that can cost $7k-9k

 

[Marc mndt]

I’d rather see flaws rather than prices get as high as high end fashion brands that can cost $7k-9k

I'd rather see beautiful Italian horsehide jackets or what have you than overpriced Shinki Leather jackets.

 

[roadking04]

Don’t worry, it won’t rip apart because of the scar.

That was my biggest worry. If the leather would be weaker due to the scar, so thank you for the replies!

I am no leather expert, but I have been on this forum for a long time. I check it almost every day ( I know, I really need to get a life, lol). I have NEVER seen a jacket rip only where a scar has been. NEVER.

@Kenan, You have nothing to worry about the scar being a weak point AT ALL.

As for aesthetics, I would take scars over corrected leather every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[red devil]

That's the question... Is that OK?

If I'm buying a pair of Gaziano and Girling shoes I'm paying for perfection. In order to deliver that perfection they only cut one or two pairs out of one hide.

Crockett and Jones (less than half the price of G&G) cuts four pairs out of one hide. They therefore may come with slight imperfections.

Now imagine my expensive G&G came with imperfections because they suddenly decided to cut three pairs out of one hide. Basically delivering C&J quality. I would be upset because I got C&J quality while paying G&G money.

That's what's happening here imo. Cost cutting while still charging top dollar for the jacket.

RMC doesn't make jackets out of passion. They're a money making business.

I am not as knowledgeable as you are in shoes, but I do remember being in the J. Fitzpatrick shop for some sort of sale event. I talked with the owner who showed me a pair of seconds, at less than 50% and showed me an imperfection on a panel. I told him it would make a great day to day office shoe. The mark was visible if you looked closely, but that's about it. This was enough to completely devalue the shoe.

I then asked about G&G, they were participating at this event as well. I was told that if he made x amount of hides (don't remember how many) for shoes, G&G used much less, exactly as you say.

Why buy G&G if they were to reduce their standards and keep their price up?

I can see uses for both pairs, the one that was discounted - still a great pair and the higher end G&G as long as I am getting what I am paying for.

I'd rather see beautiful Italian horsehide jackets or what have you than overpriced Shinki Leather jackets.

Yep, or hides from other tanneries in Himeji, there are many options. shinki is just a name.

As far as I understand, Shinki has had trouble sourcing HH in recent years. And I think this is why they tried their luck with that printed leather a few years ago.

I would just expand my supplier list if I were in their shoes - pun intended lol

Edit: some mistakes

 

[Carlos840]

That's the question... Is that OK?

If I'm buying a pair of Gaziano and Girling shoes I'm paying for perfection. In order to deliver that perfection they only cut one or two pairs out of one hide.

Crockett and Jones (less than half the price of G&G) cuts four pairs out of one hide. They therefore may come with slight imperfections.

Now imagine my expensive G&G came with imperfections because they suddenly decided to cut three pairs out of one hide. Basically delivering C&J quality. I would be upset because I got C&J quality while paying G&G money.

That's what's happening here imo. Cost cutting while still charging top dollar for the jacket.

RMC doesn't make jackets out of passion. They're a money making business.



Non of my jackets have (clusters of) pockmarks.

I'll give you the pockmarks, i was mostly refering to the scar.
Pockmarks are not the best, but IMO withint a month of wearing that jacket both "issues" would be mostly invisible.

 

[NYDRH]

As well you should. Each to his own, etc. I expect handmade items to have mistakes; I don't mind at all and, if people do, they should return said items to avoid nagging worries and fretting. Asking others for advice is generally zero sum when looking for validation unless the advisor capitulates to ease worry - which most people do, as worried people aren't much fun. I don't know whether being obsessively specific and exacting is normal - I genuinely mean that - and I wonder if perceived defects might not be more an issue of neurosis than of actual (unavoidable or corrected without people even knowing) flaws. But, it's up to individuals To decide.

Great points made all around, valid arguments to keep and to return. If it's going to bother you, send it back. I think this is the only question you have to answer and only you can answer it for yourself.

 

[Damon141]

I'd rather see beautiful Italian horsehide jackets or what have you than overpriced Shinki Leather jackets.

I’m not condoning these scars, completely opposite as I’d like to see them perfectly made. If Shinki is getting scarce then why not have a selection of quality Steerhide jackets which have proven to last throughout the years.

This is just a thought but imagine if these horsehide jackets became mainstream, imagine how much they would cost. They would skyrocket.
I’d say a much of that money from a $8,000 Tom ford jacket goes into the advertising and model campaign.

In other words I hope they stay a niche market so we can still afford these jackets, even the lower end of the semi custom jackets like Aero, we get to choose own own leather, knowing the tannery it comes from, choose the liner by both brand and type, choose the zippers in some cases.

The above is just a thought that came to my mind as people were talking about “the price point”

If given the chance would choose one without the flaws if they were side by side but if I had to pay for the return shipping and knowing that I would soon be riding 80mph with bugs and dirt/gravel, so I would be wiping dead bugs and road tar/grime from it, so I guess it would just depend on the cost of return/replacement.

You in your case with your abundant collection in which you have so many nice jackets that many will stay new for a very long time, and possibly hold their value or even rise in value if you kept it pristine for 25 years. By the time you have grandchildren, your collection will be worth quite a bit. Who knows if they will be making jackets like this anymore, just look at how hard and expensive it is to buy solid wood furniture.

In any case it hurts to see this in a brand known for near perfection.

 

[Aloysius]

That really looks great broken in. OP said it wasn’t worn that much at all, you also see some RMC Shinki that looks brand new after years. Since I’ve not owned a Shinki, I’d assume maybe this is a riding jacket which is what I’ll be doing with my Shinki when I get it. I’m guessing the ones that look new are possibly not exposed to the elements and combination with a large collection.

The breaking in doesn't demand hard wear. It's relatively fast-wearing topcoat designed to look vintage in a short amount of time. The RMC Shinki you've seen that looks 'new' after years is dyed-through. That's the only difference.

Shinki horsehide is not a good choice for a riding jacket leather. It does not hold up to scrapes well. You can see examples of this in the wild or in older posts here. Upon contact with abrasion, it tears/rubs completely through, so you can say goodbye to what skin you have under lol.

 

[TREEMAN]

Horrible Vanson, current comp weight, “disappointing”:
View attachment 432223
RMC “it’s just character” hide:
View attachment 432224

I think this comparison sums it up perfectly…send it back yesterday.

 

[Jejupe]

I think this comparison sums it up perfectly…send it back yesterday.

In my opinion its pointless to compare Vanson's Top grain leather to any Full grain leather.

 

[TREEMAN]

LOL ..You totally missed the point ...( by a mile )

 

[Jejupe]

LOL ..You totally missed the point ...( by a mile )

Care to explain your point then?

 

[Aloysius]

Care to explain your point then?

I believe the point he's trying to make is that the top grain in question looks comparable to the full grain in question, which is damning to the latter because full grain is by its nature a higher grade.

Not my opinion, one way or the other, merely rewording the point.

 

[TREEMAN]

And that's a very poor example of Vanson's CW

 

[Jejupe]

I believe the point he's trying to make is that the top grain in question looks comparable to the full grain in question, which is damning to the latter because full grain is by its nature a higher grade.

Not my opinion, one way or the other, merely rewording the point.

Well, some people think cheap embossed cowhide looks better than full grain horsehide. Matter of opinion really.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Vanson's CW is corrected cowhide, so scars, pockmarks etc. have been sanded away. So comparing corrected cowhide to uncorrected horsehide and pointing out marks in uncorrected horsehide as sign of lesser quality makes me think that it's not me who is missing the point.

It's totally different matter whether that scar and pockmarks should have been avoided by the cutter or not.

 

[Kenan]

So I bought this RMC Buco J-24 jacket. Originally I had bought the same jacket but the zipper was faulty so I had to sent it back. I bought a new one hoping that this would have no issues only to discover visible scars in the leather. The leather is vegetable tanned and pigment finished. I contacted TRMC about it and they basically called it character, but was willing to take it back. What do you guys think?

View attachment 431981 View attachment 431982 View attachment 431984 View attachment 431983

Thank you all for giving me your input. Spoke to RMC and I ended up keeping the jacket. They were willing to take it back, but not send a new one. I’d rather keep it than sending it back to buy a new one with the risk of getting one with similar or worse marks while losing money in the process due to taxation and so on.

Hopefully as many of you have said it will be a distant memory soon and the marks will likely disappear when it starts to age and break in.

 

[handymike]

Now that you’ve decided to keep it let’s see some fit pics!

 

[Kenan]

Now that you’ve decided to keep it let’s see some fit pics!