Hunting Hitler on the History Channel

[filfoster]

Why does no one credit Otto Gunsche, Hitler's SS adjutant and Heinze Linge, his valet, both of whom first saw the dead Hitler and his gal, on the sofa? They wrapped them in the rugs or blankets and took them outside for cremation. Both Gunsche and Linge lived well into the second half of the century and were not equivocal in their stories.
But, they were just loyal stooges, covering up for their chief, right? That takes more suspension of disbelief than I can muster.
AH was a very sick, feeble and mentally unstable man by April 30th, 1945. It's so improbable that he'd skedaddle by choice (his fantasy of the Gotterdammerung end) or even could have, that it undermines the History Channel's premise.
Some planes may have flown to Spain and some folks may have gone to Argentina but this citizen isn't buying it was The Big Guy and his moll.

Oh yes, and there are those pesky dental records and the jaw evidence bits.

 

[AmateisGal]

Why does no one credit Otto Gunsche, Hitler's SS adjutant and Heinze Linge, his valet, both of whom first saw the dead Hitler and his gal, on the sofa? They wrapped them in the rugs or blankets and took them outside for cremation. Both Gunsche and Linge lived well into the second half of the century and were not equivocal in their stories.
But, they were just loyal stooges, covering up for their chief, right? That takes more suspension of disbelief than I can muster.
AH was a very sick, feeble and mentally unstable man by April 30th, 1945. It's so improbable that he'd skedaddle by choice (his fantasy of the Gotterdammerung end) or even could have, that it undermines the History Channel's premise.
Some planes may have flown to Spain and some folks may have gone to Argentina but this citizen isn't buying it was The Big Guy and his moll.

Oh yes, and there are those pesky dental records and the jaw evidence bits.

Yep. I think the History Channel just wanted a sensationalized show to get ratings. Period. And it looks like they got their wish.

 

[Treetopflyer]

I read through the released declassified FBI papers on-line, at least the ones that were legible, and nothing indicates that they took any of the reports too seriously. There was no positive identification of Hitler in Argentina. Just a lot of "I saw a guy that looks like Hitler, kind of, sort of" and "I know where his secret lair is." I have also read about people seeing Elvis working at Burger King.

Looking at Hitler and his sociopathic tendencies, I don't think that he could simply fade away into the wood work. Guys like him don't just live out a quiet life in Argentina. He would have to try to get back into the limelight and take power of whatever country he was in. Besides, wouldn't the Israeli Nazi Hunters do their damndest to find him and make public of his capture?

 

[Otter]

You might expect him to be somewhere near the top of their expedite list.

 

[DNO]

You might expect him to be somewhere near the top of their expedite list.

Eichmann was a pretty good second choice.

 

[Stearmen]

This is just tong in check, but I could not resist!

 

[Blackjack]

Ok, I'm definitely in the minority here as far as keeping an open mind on this, but if you're talking about evidence and facts proving he died in the bunker what are they? Considering all the forensic evidence, bone fragments ect has now been proven by scientific testing to not belong to either Hitler or Eva where is the evidence? Where are the facts? Treetopflyer was right when he said he'd try to take control, that's exactly what the book was saying. The Only facts are they don't know if he got out or not.
I would suggest any/all of you read the book Grey Wolf , then if you'd like to debate whether or not he got out it might be interesting. Right now I'm just bantering with everyone that doesn't believe it because they don't want to believe it. I'm pretty sure that everyone here would have argued that his skull in the Kremlin all these years was really his too before they recently proved it wasn't.

 

[filfoster]

Are you reading the posts?
There is eyewitness testimony of Hitler's SS adjutant, Otto Gunsche and his valet, Heinz Linge.
There is the exact match of dental records from Hitler's medical records that match a jawbone the Soviets recovered. The bones weren't all wired together in a neat skeleton (there was a war on, with many shells falling in the Reichskanzlie garden, churning up the place) so it's likely the skull, jaw, other bones are from multiple bodies, including Der Fuhrer's.
Read about halfway down here:
http://justice4germans.com/2013/06/...e-trumps-rumours-theories-and-romantic-tales/

For this citizen, it doesn't matter that a skull DNA didn't match. The dental records do, and the eyewitness testimony is persuasive enough. It's interesting to speculate on what the DNA tests of the jawbone would reveal.
Oh, and there is still the larger reality of who Hitler was at the time of his death: A very tired, weak and sick man, who wanted to die a dramatic death. The runaway scenario just isn't plausible to many readers of history.

And, in perverse humor, it's ruefully funny to know Hitler'd rather be married than dead by such a small margin, as shown by his last-minute nuptials. He really didn't intend to have any wedding anniversaries. Misogynists imagine this to be the strongest possible proof of his end.

Is anyone sorry he didn't get to bask in his golden years in the sunny Argentine? No.

Is it fun to read Gray Wolf and watch the pseudo history on The History Channel?
Sure.

 

[AmateisGal]

Ok, I'm definitely in the minority here as far as keeping an open mind on this, but if you're talking about evidence and facts proving he died in the bunker what are they? Considering all the forensic evidence, bone fragments ect has now been proven by scientific testing to not belong to either Hitler or Eva where is the evidence? Where are the facts? Treetopflyer was right when he said he'd try to take control, that's exactly what the book was saying. The Only facts are they don't know if he got out or not.
I would suggest any/all of you read the book Grey Wolf , then if you'd like to debate whether or not he got out it might be interesting. Right now I'm just bantering with everyone that doesn't believe it because they don't want to believe it. I'm pretty sure that everyone here would have argued that his skull in the Kremlin all these years was really his too before they recently proved it wasn't.

Evidence and facts are plentiful on this. I'm not sure why you think they're not.

 

[DNO]

Enough with the skull, already. That Guardian article that was in one of Blackjack's posts clearly states that a skull fragment, which was found a year after the discovery of Hitler's body, was found to be from a female....NOT the skull itself. "Could've been, should've been" history can be very irritating indeed, although profitable for it's purveyors. Try Roper's book...he was there.

 

[Blackjack]

Evidence and facts are plentiful on this. I'm not sure why you think they're not.

Then what are they?... Even Hitlers dentist Dr. Hugo Blaschke who was a member of the SS was asked by the Americans to identify the jaw fragments as Hitlers, just drew a diagram after showing what he remembered Hitlers work to be. After he saw the jaw fragments. ??? The skull isn't his, no one interviewed at Nuremberg. (NO ONE) saw the bodies, there are dozens of eyewitness testimonies from Spain, Argentina, Columbia ect of people who either had contact with ( because of their occupation) or witnessed Hitlers coming and goings down there. Stalin said he escaped, I could go on but I'm tired of repeating the same facts. People, believe what you will. Im not trying to "convince" anyone that he got out of Berlin because I really don't know, I wasn't there to see it first hand. Evidence, especially after several years can be tainted, tampered with, made to look like it's something it's not. History is written by the victors, Im just not one to believe something just because it's in a book if there's opposing evidence. If you are , that's fine it makes life easier when you don't question things

 

[Stearmen]

Enough with the skull, already. That Guardian article that was in one of Blackjack's posts clearly states that a skull fragment, which was found a year after the discovery of Hitler's body, was found to be from a female....NOT the skull itself. "Could've been, should've been" history can be very irritating indeed, although profitable for it's purveyors. Try Roper's book...he was there.

Hitler and Eve Braun were married then committed suicide, their bodies were taken out to the court yard, and placed in a shallow trench. Their bodies were soaked in gasoline, and set on fire. Then the remains were buried in a common grave. So, the skull fragment is hers. The bodies were dug up and re buried several times by the Soviets, then ordered destroyed by Stalin, it is a miracle anything survived! They also went back to the original grave sight and picked for more skeletal remains. Still, a grand escape makes for a better story, then suicide and dumped unceremoniously into a common grave!

 

[AmateisGal]

History is written by the victors, Im just not one to believe something just because it's in a book if there's opposing evidence. If you are , that's fine it makes life easier when you don't question things

Backhanded insults are unbecoming. I am a trained historian; I don't believe things just because they're in a book. But when the same conclusions are made by MULTIPLE people over YEARS AND YEARS based on a variety of sources, then yeah, I'm much more inclined to put my faith in that rather than a hyped-up show on The "History" Channel.

You have been given a rather large body of evidence on all these posts. Frankly, I'm not sure why you continue to ignore them.

 

[Sharpsburg]

I'm waiting for the, "uh yah, and the Holocaust didn't happen, either." Everybody needs something to believe in, I suppose...

 

[filfoster]

"No one saw the bodies"? Otto Gunsche and Heinz Linge entered the room and saw them and took them to the garden. They lived to be old men and repeatedly gave their stories.
The good Dr. Blaschke may not have testified but as the link i provided above includes x ray records from Hitler's doctors that include his dental work.
Does no one read the less sensational histories of the last days?
As for Stalin's remarks, why wouldn't he enjoy making mischief? He was such a prankster on a grand scale.

 

[DNO]

Backhanded insults are unbecoming. I am a trained historian; I don't believe things just because they're in a book. But when the same conclusions are made by MULTIPLE people over YEARS AND YEARS based on a variety of sources, then yeah, I'm much more inclined to put my faith in that rather than a hyped-up show on The "History" Channel.

You have been given a rather large body of evidence on all these posts. Frankly, I'm not sure why you continue to ignore them.

Hear, Hear! I too have history training which is why such 'could've been' tales are so distressing. It insults my discipline. And the backhanded insult...enough reason to end participation in this thread, I think. Don't need it.

 

[AmateisGal]

Hear, Hear! I too have history training which is why such 'could've been' tales are so distressing. It insults my discipline. And the backhanded insult...enough reason to end participation in this thread, I think. Don't need it.

Agreed.

 

[DNO]

Agreed.

I guess we'll just have to let filfoster continue to bang his head on the wall! Sorry, fil.

 

[Blackjack]

I'm waiting for the, "uh yah, and the Holocaust didn't happen, either." Everybody needs something to believe in, I suppose...

Actually that would be more on the site that Filfoster posted, justice for germans. I didn't mean that statement as a backhanded insult, sorry you took it that way, and if you've been reading my posts I said I don't know if he got away or not because I wasn't there. Like I said before believe what you'd like, question history or don't, that should only matter to you not me.

 

[MisterCairo]

Why does no one credit Otto Gunsche, Hitler's SS adjutant and Heinze Linge, his valet, both of whom first saw the dead Hitler and his gal, on the sofa? They wrapped them in the rugs or blankets and took them outside for cremation. Both Gunsche and Linge lived well into the second half of the century and were not equivocal in their stories.
But, they were just loyal stooges, covering up for their chief, right? That takes more suspension of disbelief than I can muster.
AH was a very sick, feeble and mentally unstable man by April 30th, 1945. It's so improbable that he'd skedaddle by choice (his fantasy of the Gotterdammerung end) or even could have, that it undermines the History Channel's premise.
Some planes may have flown to Spain and some folks may have gone to Argentina but this citizen isn't buying it was The Big Guy and his moll.

Oh yes, and there are those pesky dental records and the jaw evidence bits.

You're relying on contemporary evidence, science and reason.

Consequently, you'll attract very few broadcast viewers or page views.

Therefore, your views cannot be given credit.

Only theories that require you to ignore the extant evidence, suspend disbelief and to rely on supposition and conspiracy can be credited.

After all, if the History Channel says it's true, it must be, right?

I read that on the internet somewhere...

;-)