how to start building a man's wardrobe?

[Celeste Photini Gregor]

Hi!
I am a long time lurker and first time poster love love love tthis forum! And it was the first place that came to mind when I started having questions about men's vintage clothing.

I have done the retro/vintage clothing thing for several years and was super excited the other week when my husband looked at me all dolled up to go out and said he needed new clothes because he wants to go vintage too He already has a nice selection of classic twill sport jackets and vintage ties (thanks to me) that he wears with khakis for semi dressy occasions. But he still does the jeans and t shirt thing most of the time. We have started looking at 40s and 50s men's fashion and he is mostly drawn to the standard and classic look vs greaser or rockabilly. I think the style will suit him well; for very casual wear I think he needs some straight leg jeans that can be cuffed and worn with boots, as well as white ts and patterned button downs worn with rolled up sleeves and suspenders. And a bomber jacket. But for something a little classier he wants to try the wide leg pleated 1940s/50s trousers and short or long sleeve button downs and wide ties and Bermuda shorts for summer (apparently traditionally worn with knee high socks?! I don't know about that lol. Maybe short socks and canvas sneakers?) And maybe even Hawaiian shirts.

I have a few questions though! First, what do you gentlemen think are the staples of a basic wardrobe? We have very limited means, so the first few purchases need to have serious impact and go far. Secondly; sources. Repro stuff I have found is at least $150 for shirts never mind pants. But at 6'2" vintage pants don't usually come long enough. I do sew, which may be our best option. This leads me to my final question. Because vintage pants are so much higher rise, how do we measure him? In modern pants he wears 34x34s. But would it be different in higher waist pants with a lower crotch seam?

I am sure some of this is covered in other threads. Links would be awesome!
Thanks in advance boys!

 

[Rodney]

Great question! I'm just starting too so I'm looking forward to what the experienced members here have to say.
Casual vintage with a sport jacket, trousers and tie would be dressier than anything I currently wear. I would eventually love to get a full suit too.
Rodney

 

[brendanm720]

Celeste:

That's such an open-ended question!

The staples differ depending on the look you want to have. I think you've got some fantastic ideas on where to start. You may want to check out the various workwear threads for more ideas.

Thrift stores will have some stuff, and eBay will have some stuff too. Check the classifieds here on the forum -- you may luck out, and someone may have something in their collection that they've been thinking about selling.

Keep an eye out for surplus WWII trousers -- they often came unhemmed or very long, and would give you a vintage look. Also, I wear oxford cloth shirts with my 50's suits and sport coats, and they don't look like they're out of place.

If you're having problems finding trousers that are long enough, you may want to check out the sewing and tailoring threads for ideas. Also, evadress.com has 3 different long pants patterns (30's, 40's, & 50's), which a few of the guys on the forum have made (and modified) to great effect. There is a thread about sourcing vintage-equivalent fabrics, as well. Modern fabrics are thinner than vintage ones were.

As for measuring him for trousers, I generally go with natural waist (right about my belly button), seat (the biggest part) and inseam. That having been said, at different times in history the rise on trousers has fluctuated, and what may have been the norm for the 1930's may be different than the 1950's. You can always do up a "muslin" in the cheapest cloth you can find, have him try them on, and adjust the pattern as necessary before cutting into nice cloth if you are concerned about fit. (Many tailors use this method for bespoke suits.)

Canvas tennis shoes have been around since the early 1900's, so a pair of keds or converse wouldn't be out of place.

 

[Stanley Doble]

Dress For Success by John Molloy offers some great advice on building a wardrobe. His advice is geared toward business but tips on buying clothes, correct fit, color coordination etc can by applied to vintage as well.

It just occurred to me that since the book was first published in the seventies it is nearly vintage itself.

 

[Rabbit]

Welcome to the Lounge. Try these for a start:

measuring high rise

How did people in the 40s-50s casually dress? (Without Suits)

Help finding 1950's dress pants for larger guy

For tall fellows who have trouble finding vintage trousers that are long enough, the next best options are the more inexpensive repro makers, some of which are actually very good (Luxire, Spencers Trousers UK) or, as you yourself suggested, home sewing.

For home-sewing, I recommend that you get hold of some vintage trousers in the right size, take them apart and make your own pattern from there. You can then even modify the pattern wherever you want. There is no shortcut to that, and you'll get the best results with little cost. For the purpose at hand, the originals you're going to buy can be too short, they can be dirty and moth-eaten; just take your time to learn about the cuts of each period so that you'll buy the right one.

Since you won't have to be particular, you'll find a pair for $20 or something sooner or later. Thrift shops in your town may have some for a few bucks.

One of the most ubiquitous and cheap vintage trousers with the right cut for 1940s trousers (or 30s, or 50s with a little modification) are the WWII and post-WWII U.S. Army greens (you beat me to it, brendan!). There were three different patterns during the WWII and early postwar period, issued until the late 40s, and the differences between them are of no consequence. Those are 18oz wool trousers, shade drab olive, and they have a date stamp in the waist liner or on the side pocket, with pattern date and production date. They often have a pretty large amount of excess fabric at the cuffless hem, by the way. These trousers have no pleats, but those can easily be added on the new pattern that you derive from them.
There are other military trousers of the period that will do the same job, of course.

You may also want to search the Tailor and Cutter forum for trouser making. They have lots of scans of period trouser patterns.

As for measuring the waist size for vintage trousers, you have to measure the actual body circumference at the height where the trousers sit, which is about a finger's width or two above the navel, depending on the anatomy (the navel doesn't always sit at the exact same proportional height). Your best estimate, not having worn vintage trousers before, is above the hipbone (at the side!) and just a little below the lowest point of the ribcage. If there is no tummy, this is the narrowest section of the upper body.
The trousers themselves will measure about an inch larger in circumference, or whatever excess you may prefer, so that they hang properly when worn with braces.

 

[Celeste Photini Gregor]

You guys are so awesome. Truly! I am giddy over all this fabulous information. Gonna order that book (totally vintage; cars from 1992 now qualify as vintage. True story!) And those less expensive repro shops will be perfect; I don't want to spend too many loads of time custom drafting and tailoring pants until I know he likes the style lol! And thank you, Rabbit, for those forums links.

brendanm720, that was so in depth and addressed my very open ended question quite well! My research up to this point has involved a few Pinterest searches to study old photos and sewing patterns. The world of mens wear, never mind the very special world of vintage menswear, is entirely new to me. Ask me about lipstick sealers, pincurl sets, and dress silhouettes on the other hand... (although most of you can probably converse on those subjects as well!)

 

[brendanm720]

You're welcome, though I think Rabbit's reply was probably more helpful.

Also, I'm afraid I can't say much about lipstick sealers, pincurl sets, and dress silhouettes...

Except that my grandma had a pincurl set, so I know one when I see one.

 

[Rabbit]

You're welcome. A few more links:

Luxire trousers

Spencer's Trousers (UK). Any good?

And check this database for a heap of pattern scans, catalogue scans etc. - both men's and women's vintage clothes:
http://siamcostumes.com/guides.php?cat=14
A lot of these scans are put together from other sources. The Internet Archive is also a good source for patterns and some catalogues.

 

[handymike]

Or, if you have a little patience try SJC!
He's coming out with great things soon...

http://sjcforum.com/index.php

You can even share your ideas.

 

[handymike]

Depending on what style you want to go for...
The How it's Worn thread on Denimbro has great pictures- although more Heritage style and denim than some here care for:

http://www.denimbro.com/how-its-worn_topic7.html

 

[JackieMatra]

Outside of a suit, non-jean trousers, at a reasonable price, that fit, will probably be the most difficult thing to find.
These are high-waisted and very loose-fitting, and are fairly easily found for about $160, but if you hurry you might snag the last pair for $25 including shipping, here:
https://www.etsy.com/transaction/257350339
Nice fairly thick wool that'll keep him warm in the late fall, winter, and early spring.
Belt loops AND suspender buttons. Easily adjustable waist, 31" to 35" (but likely even a little bit larger).
I generally wear a 33" inseam with a waist that fluctuates between 32" and 35.5", and these trousers had to be taken up considerably and their adjustable waist always fits me.
Okay, admittedly they're olive drab, but that goes fine with everything green and brown, and even gray and black. (or yellow for the wild at heart.)

 

[handymike]

Just a warning: If you're on a budget, avoid the Outerwear section!
There are many fantastic leather jackets around those parts, but they get to be pricey once you catch the bug!

Welcome to the Lounge!

 

[JackieMatra]

Very nice current new "vintage style" leather jackets should be able to be found for less than $200, which "even on a budget" isn't too terribly bad for a piece of apparel that should last for quite a few decades if reasonably well cared for.

For double-breasted overcoats (which seem to have been "out-of-style" for ages) have a look at military surplus shops, particularly ones that sell European military surplus apparel. Just change the buttons and remove the epaulettes, and you'll have 1920s to 1940s vintage looking overcoats.

 

[GHT]

Welcome to the lounge Celeste, you say that you can sew. That's handy when you are working to a tight budget. Search for "Victoria Jones Classic Hawaiian shirt pattern", then search for "Hawaiian shirt fabric." There are lots of helpful sites that you can choose from, which is why I leave the choice to you instead of posting a link.
And whilst you have your sewing machine out, you might try other shirts, like a classic spearpoint collar. A quality spearpoint would set you back about £100, (the exchange rate varies, but a good rule of thumb is to translate one pound to a dollar, fifty.)
How does he feel about wearing a hat? Try him out with an Hawaiian shirt teamed up with a rather natty Panama straw hat. Just search for Panama Hats.
Finally, get him lurking on The Lounge, you never know, it might just inspire him. We could have our very own George Burns and Gracie Allen. Oh, and don't forget to show us his, (and your,) new purchases.

 

[Two Types]

a lower crotch seam?

EEK! The crotch isn't lower - the waist is higher. (As Rabbit says, check out the real waist position, everything starts from there).

Anyway rant over, here's my thoughts. I pretty much agree with Rabbit: If you can sew, then make him some trousers to vintage patterns. Have a look through the 'Vintage Tailoring' thread here on the FL. It will give you lots of ideas and advice. It also has lots of technical stuff that I don't understand! You can also post questions there for our resident experts (HBK, Qirel, Nick D etc) to ask for help when you are stuck trying to get a tricky pocket placement.

I would also recommend putting a 'Want to buy' ad here in the classifieds. List your fella's measurements and what you want to buy. There's a chance people will have something for you. Even if it's knackered vintage trousers for you to copy. Seriously, plenty of people on the FL have spare stuff hanging around and not all of it is expensive.

Good luck.

 

[Rabbit]

The M1951 trousers in the Etsy link above replaced the WWII/ early postwar patterns of the U.S. Army trousers. You will find both the M1951 pattern and the WWII pattern trousers with no difficulty. I haven't handled the M1951, so I cannot attest to the cut, but they should be fairly similar to the old pattern. The old one has a button fly and no side tabs, that's for sure.
You'll find some knackered civilian trousers with the ideal specs (pleats, pockets on seam) just as easily, though. Trousers in general are the cheapest part of the vintage outerwear wardrobe.

EEK! The crotch isn't lower - the waist is higher. (As Rabbit says, check out the real waist position, everything starts from there).

In 2000s and especially 2010s cuts of trousers - not just jeans, but suit trousers and odd trousers - the crotch can be quite high. Compared to that, vintage trousers do have a low crotch seam, although it would be much more accurate to say that they have a natural crotch height while the contemporary cuts have a high crotch height. It's so high that you can see which side a bloke dresses to. Of course the term low crotch should be reserved for certain legwear that is worn (shudder) sagging.

 

[tropicalbob]

Hi, Celeste. I'd avoid the whole idea of "going vintage," as the phrase suggests that a certain look is going to be imposed from outside rather than coming from within, which is where style in dress really comes from: you'd wind up with a costume rather than a style. What does he like, and what suits him? One idea I'd suggest for starters would be to check for tweed jackets on Ebay and Etsy. It's one area where you can still find incredible deals for beautiful jackets.

 

[Celeste Photini Gregor]

I'm sorry that phrase made it seem that way; to me it simply indicated that his outside will finally be reflecting his insides! He has decided he really likes vintage fashion and wants to give it a go, and wants to learn about vintage fashion; while I don't think he cares too much about perfect authenticity, he finds it interesting and does want an overall appearance that clearly says "vintage". I myself have a fairly modernized or rockabilly look, but he likes the very classic stuff which I believe will look much better on him than the greaser or rockabilly styles. As I said in my original post, he really likes the very classic semi-casual 1940s look with the baggy pleated pants and sweaters over dress shirts with ties, or button down shirts with rolled sleeves and suspenders.

 

[Celeste Photini Gregor]

To everyone that helped me with learning about rise and inseam measuring; after he had me take his measurements today, we think that because of the higher rise and (forgive the phrase, please, Mr Two Types ) lower crotch measurement when compared to modern jeans, a 31" inseam should be about right. I measured the outer seam length from natural waist, natural waist to the bottom of the crotch, and subtracted to get the inseam.... and it turns out I have found lots of great vintage trousers for $25-$75 between eBay and a website called vintagetrends.com
Good thing he has a birthday coming up!

 

[Dreamofgilgamesh]

Hi Celeste, not that I'm a great authority but I'd suggest starting him off modestly. As Bob said, a nice tweed jacket is a good start. Maybe a nice spear point collar white shirt with a selection of ties. Look around for some good quality wool dress trousers and use your sewing skills to attach some buttons for braces. A pair of shiny leather brogues on his feet and I would say that's a good start.