How (NOT) to Buy a Hat on Ebay

[Spellflower]

Something simple I wish all sellers would do is list the size in the subject line. I don't care how great your vintage Borsalino is, if it's a 6 1/8, it's of no use to me, and I'd rather not waste my time clicking on the link and scanning all your payment information, not to mention spiels about Bogey and Indy, just to find it out!

 

[John in Covina]

This is the stuff that ebay gambling is made of. Clueless sellers - sometimes they are selling an outstanding hat, but it is an off-brand (a local custom hatter long since outta business) and poorly advertized, bad (and few) photos. You can win some killer hats that way, and can get really stung too. I wonder sometimes if the 'clueless' seller is really much smarter, and only pretending to be clueless, hoping to suck us into gambling for a lousy hat.

*************

That is why it is more of detective work type selectivity comes in, where there needs to be a clue as to the origin of the hat that has been given in an unwitting manner. Bad photos and the worst descriptions are the price one pays for a unknowing uncaring and unsympathetic seller. However they may just mention a small but key point and that is where a good deal can come into play.

Just remember when dealing with the public: "Genius has its Limits, Stupidity Does Not."

 

[John in Covina]

Something simple I wish all sellers would do is list the size in the subject line. I don't care how great your vintage Borsalino is, if it's a 6 1/8, it's of no use to me, and I'd rather not waste my time clicking on the link and scanning all your payment information, not to mention spiels about Bogey and Indy, just to find it out!

*****************
I wrote a buyers / sellers guide in EBAY on fedoras. Noted that exactly as well as a number of salient points. If only EBAY people could read.

 

[Spellflower]

John, do you have a link to your guide? I've often thought about writing one myself. If it's not getting read on the bay, it might here.

 

[John in Covina]

This is the full disertation Ebay is shorter.

I have posted this before but can't find the thread.


Version 4: Men’s Dress Hats, Questions for the Buyer & Seller!

There are a variety of styles of hats that fall under the category of Men’s Dress hats. The most famous is the FEDORA, which has wide latitudes and parameters for dimensions yet still falls under the general description. Your best bet is to do some research visiting online stores to get a good description and look at pictures to match up the type actual of hat you’re selling. Still, “Fedora” is a much misused term with sellers calling all sorts of men’s hats, a ‘fedora’ that are not. HOMBURGS are also in the mix and are similar to a fedora but the especially the brim and sometimes the crown are shaped differently. BOWLERS, DERBIES, TOP HATS, PORK PIES, ALPINE and STINGY BRIMS are the usual suspects that round out those normally found in men’s dress hats.

First off, the best of these hats are made of fur felt, either: beaver, rabbit or nutria and sometimes a blend. Occasionally, you may find an exotic fur used in the felt. If you are positive of the content, please list it, exotic fur felt can be quite desirable. Also, there are some well made hats that contain synthetic materials that were blended with real fur to make the felt. The dress hat has a relative in Western hats, both using fur felt bodies to make the hat. Western hats often have different beaver contents are noted as X’s, with the idea that more X’s are better felts. Although wool felt hats can be well made and serviceable, fur felt is generally noted as a better quality offering a longer life.

The quality of the felt may allow for cleaning and re-blocking plus re-sizing sometimes, but these are moderate to expensive restorations when done by professionals. The cleaning and restoration of hats were once available in most towns and cities. Now there are only a small number of hatters and specialty shops prepared to do this work. Most amateurs should first consider many repairs in the realm of pros only, unless they have a number of hats to practice on to get the experience. Some defects are not repairable or extremely difficult to do such as holes or divots in the felt. Holes can come from too much improper handling and the dreaded “moth bites.” Moth larva may munch on the felt creating small holes and/or divot like tracks along the surface of the felt. Moth balls or flakes or even cedar blocks should be utilized in the storage area to keep these destructive pests away from your quality hats. Any holes or divots need to be described and shown in photos if possible. Dirt, dust, stains, smudges, or damages to the surface again must be described and shown in photos. Dust and dirt may be cleaned by a knowledgeable person, but should not be done by the untrained as the felt can be quickly and irreversibly damaged. Spots and stains are not always removable and again should be noted and photographed.

Smells or odors should be noted, most can be removed by cleaning, although just a good an airing out may work. Failing that the hat may be placed in a big plastic bag with a box of baking soda like the refrigerator odor removal type for about a week. Don’t get that baking soda on the hat though!

Always try to show pictures of the details of the imprints on the sweatband and the liner. Careful checking under the sweatband may reveal tags with codes that are of interest to the collector. The style of crests and such can often be used to find the era of manufacture. Occasionally an actual date may be revealed and that is good detective work to the delight of the collector. Be sure to include all of the liner, sweatband imprints and tag information in your written description! Be as accurate and complete in your description as you can. If you can do “macro” or close up pictures of these details that clearly show them all the better, it will help sell the hat.

Take clear and focused pictures from every conceivable angle: outside: top, bottom, front back and both sides. Inside: close-ups of any imprints and details. The box, if you have a box, can be a generic hat box or a box that is specific to your hat or in can be totally unrelated. Still, describe fully and accurately and photograph, list the box information and photos at the end of the ad. Try to describe the colors of the hat and the box, as color pictures doesn’t always render correctly on the computer monitor. Fuzzy pictures are a detriment and a headache, and buyers often feel it is a ploy to try to hide defects. Also do not clutter the picture with other items or try to be artsy. Try using a plain background such as a solid light colored blanket, table cloth or sheet. Sometimes you can prop up a hat to effectively show the curl of the brim. Try to refrain from cutesy posing like using the dog or your toddler with the hat, it distracts and detracts from the hat. By concentrating on the hat in your description and photos, you do the buyer a big favor.

Measurements and dimensions are critical to the style and size of a man’s hat so be prepared to measure! Inches with fractions works best but metric can be worked out for most buyers. Describe the Crown & give height front and rear. Describe the width of the ribbon and show the bow in your pictures. Describe the brim, as to the WIDTH. Does it curve up or down or both? Please measure width from the base of the crown, at or near where the bottom of the ribbon or band is, and out to the edge. Also note, some hats are wider at the front and the rear than the sides, you may wish to measure all of these sections to be sure.

Good pictures of the ribbon and the bow are essential too! Also the edge of the brim maybe worked in a variety of ways such as raw, bound, stitched, folded and pressed all of which are of interest to the collector or user. Sometimes you may find a button with a string or cord attached to the hat. This is referred to as a Wind Trolley, and by other names. It attached the hat to the man to keep it from being blown away and lost.

Even if you find a size tag, note that old and unworn hats tend to shrink, so you should double check and list the ACTUAL SIZE of a hat! Please, measure the CIRCUMFRENCE of the hat, INSIDE, all the way AROUND the SWEAT BAND in inches to nearest fraction of an inch. If you do not have a cloth tape measure, then use a piece of string. Or make a paper tape and read the measured string or paper tape against tape measure or yard stick. Here is a conversion chart for converting Inches to US sizes:

INCHES US Size Metric
21” = size 6-5/8 = 53 cm
21-1/2” = size 6-3/4 = 54 cm
21-3/4” = size 6-7/8 = 55 cm
22” = size 7 = 56 cm
22-1/2” = size 7-1/8 = 57 cm
22-3/4” = size 7-1/4 = 58 cm
23” = size 7-3/8 = 59 cm
23-1/2” = size 7-1/2 = 60 cm
24” = size 7-5/8 = 61 cm
24-3/8” = size 7-3/4 = 62 cm
24-7/8” = size 7-7/8 = 63 cm
25-1/8” = size 8 = 63 cm

Also the size tag may mention a shape type like LONG OVAL which is a specific shape to match a head shape. This is key information to be listed!

A good, complete, and accurate description, noting all the details, along with clear pictures will bring you a better chance for a good sale.

In the ITEM TITLE you should consider first listing the following:
STYLE, MAKER, MODEL, COLOR, SIZE and then some sales pitch.
These first five items will help more to sell the hat by allowing the collector find your treasure quickly and easily using the search button.

Example: Fedora Stetson Playboy Grey 7-7/8 Film Noir very clean!

Again, the more details in your write up you can accurately list the better the chance to sell. The more honestly and accurately you describe the hat including faults, the more likely you will NOT have an angry customer looking to return the hat as misrepresented in the listings. Collectors may be looking for certain specific details which are always good to publish in the Question and Answer area to help all the buyers. It is not privileged information, you as the seller, should use all information at your disposal to help collectors find and select your hat.

If you don’t know the actual age of the hat, don’t guess, unless you care to expound on why you think it is of a certain age. Many hats made in the 60’s and later are listed erroneously as much earlier manufacture, style does not always indicate age.

Damaged hats may be restorable, our hatters can do some remarkable and rather astonishing restorations but they are labors of love, time consuming and of great expense. That said, rare and desirable models may suggest a complete rebuild to revive a notable hat. Even a damaged or dirty hat can be worth listing.

Happy selling and good luck with your hat auction.

 

[Edward]

Excellent guide.... if only more sellers would follow it! It's especially useful in the vintage section that sellers give size as (at least on the UK version of EBAY), vintage headwear can only be searched by generic s/m/l etc sizes rather than the more accurate 57/58/59 etc that the regular "men's accessories" category allows for.

 

[Spellflower]

Thanks, John. If only sellers would take all your advice, shopping would be a lot easier. I'd be happy if they even followed this simple formula:

Headline:
(Brand) Fedora Hat (size) (color)

Description:
This is a (Brand) fedora, size (x), and in a lovely shade of (color). The brim is (x) inches wide, and the condition is (x).

 

[Colby Jack]

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap Bravo Bravo:eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[carter]

John,

That is a very comprehensive guide. It would be very helpful if it was posted as a "Sticky" in the Hats Forum. Then it would be easily accessible to all members at any time.

 

[KY Gentleman]

It is very frustrating to have to read someones lengthy eBay listing and find no size listed. John In Covina has a great guide that would be quite helpful to everyone! I have gotten three or four excellent deals on eBay, and I generally wear a 7 7/8 . The good ones are few and far between but that kind of adds to the thrill of the hunt!

 

[Rick Blaine]

I recently bought a lot from EBAY . . . The seller wrote "7 hats and 4 boxes . . . three are Stetson, and some other brands . . . 2 straw . . . they are kind of dirty, but could probably be cleaned." . . . No sizes were listed . . . The photo was a long distance shot, and not very good. But I thought I saw something . . .

So I gambles . . . $100.00 plus shipping . . .

Here is what I got. Two 1940s Stetson Thin ribboned 3Xs . . . Very nice, and in excellent condition. A late 50s Stetson Homburg in mint condition. A 1950s Knox Twenty, with a Cav edge. A late 60s Resistol Velour stingy in mint condition. A vintage Knox Panama that is better than any I have ever owned. Another "store" brand panama, same vintage as the Knox, also better than any I have ever owned. All were sixe 7 3/8s . . .

The boxes? A Resistol square with a leather strap, a 1950s Knox octagonal, and a 1950s Stetson oval and a no-name black oval with a lace strap . . .

It was a good gamble . . .

Holy frijoles !!!!

I should say so... how'd I miss that one?
Well done, a very nice haul!!!!

 

[Lon Goval]

"Serious buyers only. I expect to get your email within 30 minutes after the auction ends. If you can't be in your computer by that time, don't bid! If you say that you're not home, your computer broke down, your line's dead, and so on, then don't bid! I can't accept excuses. If I fail to get your reply by then I will give negative feedback bla bla bla ... "

When I run into conditions like this, or excessive shipping (BIN $1.00 and $19.95 shipping/handling) I report it to ebay. Doesn't necessarily do any good but I feel better.

I have found so many typos in listings that I have searched under various spellings (not usually hats) and have found some good deals. Nobody else was bidding because they never saw the listings.

I tend to regard ebay as a gamble, just as loaning money to someone. Only loan what you can afford to lose. So far I've been fairly lucky in that one $500.00 item was "stolen property" and one $1100.00 was twice as old as stated and slightly damaged. Both were musical instruments. I received a partial rebate from ebay on the stolen property purchase and sold the other after repairs. But that was when I was working, so now limits are much lower.

Ralph

 

[Stoney]

I have found so many typos in listings that I have searched under various spellings (not usually hats) and have found some good deals. Nobody else was bidding because they never saw the listings.
Ralph

Talk about letting the cat out of the bag, now everyone will be looking for typos
and buying all of the really good hats I used to get cheap!

LOL

lol lol lol

 

[Josephine]

fftopic: I found a nice peak lapel tux on eBay by accident-- they had it as a notch lapel, and usually I search by -notch and -notched. This time I was searching just for size. I would have bid on it but I found a shawl lapel I liked better.