How hard can it possibly be?

[Ugarte]

A few years ago I bought three suits, a couple of three-buttons and a two-button. I bought them at Penny's and they're actually fairly nice suits, but the jackets fit like I bought them off the rack. That is to say, they fit badly.

I guess I'm a funny shape. If I am to believe that "standard" dimensions are informative, then I am wide in the shoulders and short in the arms and torso. Depending on cut, I size to a 46 or 48 short. I purchased a tweed sports coat in I believe a 46 short and it fits very nicely. I've got another sports coat and a blue blazer that are 46's and they fit just fine. The suit coats in question however fit me like wool ponchos.

I purchased the jackets to fit me in the shoulders figuring I could have them taken up to fit. I couldn't get them in "short" sizes, so I bought them as regulars and had the sleeves taken up. This fits fine. The jacket skirts may be an inch or so too long, but that's not a problem either. The problem is all this extra wool around my waist. I don't have pics of these abominable outfits (that's not entirely true, my avatar is one of the wool ponchos in question) but imagine that the coat is on and properly buttoned. I can snugly stack *two* fists between my diaphragm and the interior of the coat behind the button. That's two fists the long way (picture using two hands to pull an imaginary spear out of your own abdomen).

As I was having them altered, I talked to the woman doing my alterations at the time about it. This woman seemed entirely competent. She was trained to make suits in the Philippines and claims to have done plenty of tailoring. She looked at the mess and assured me that the suit had "very nice drape." She was not enthusiastic about altering the suit to narrow the waist. Because I was stressed for time otherwise, I basically took her word for it and went on about my business assuming that I would learn to appreciate the drape over time. I remember discussing this issue in these forums as all this was going on, but I don't remember what the verdict was.

In the meantime, I have collected a number of Italian double breasted suits (all 6x1). I like the way they fit much better. Problem is now I've got three suits that am loath to wear. I really could use the suits (basic black, charcoal w/pinstripe, and navy w/pinstripe) for job interviews and such. My question is, am I being unreasonable thinking that it would not take a great deal of skill, time, and/or money to alter these jackets to fit a little better?

Do you folks have any ideas?

Thanks.

Mark
.

 

[Atinkerer]

It sounds to me like you could have the suits tailored fit to you just fine. The fact that the jackets are a little long (and that can't be changed much) may not be so bad because that would make you look slimmer. However, if the jackets are very long on you, you may end up looking like Toulouse Lautrec. The question is, are these suits worth the expense of so much altering?

Tony

 

[Tailor Tom]

My thoughts...

I think a couple of things might be in question here.
First is are they the right size? By that I mean that a lot of men, A LOT, are all wearing the wrong size. They tend to grab the same size off the rack each and every time ( or their spouse does this) and they don't realize that suit sizing changes. As does every designers / labels' because they all wish a different "fit"
Some designers do an industry standard 6" drop ( ie; chest size to waist size...40reg has 34 w. trouser), others do a 7", some do a relaxed fit, others a more fitted look overall, etc.

I always tell people to try on what they think it their normal size and then try on a size larger and smaller too. A smaller size might fit better in the shoulders, say, and give a trimmer appearance or just might need to be let out a touch. It also has a lot to do with what size trousers come with the suit coat, and what will have to be done to them, etc. Also check out Regular, versus short/long versions too. Most people would want to put me in a regular, but a short actually works better for me, with its shorter rise trousers, place the waistline in a better location on your body, a bit shorter coat overall, and shorter sleeves ( which may still need to be shortened, but not as much as a reg. (and therefore I don't loose the entire sleeve vent).

As for your alterations, some "alterations" people only want to do the minimum of work on a garment. Because that is where/how they make the most money. But taking in sides should be common enough, unless they need to open the armhole to get a "good line" thru the entire seem. Shortening a coat is a bit different, but most can usually be shortened 1" reasonably. But, this can involve remaking vents, etc. and things should always be in proportion, ie; distance from pockets, etc.

You can look for custom Tailors on your area, most all of them are willing to take care of your alteration needs with great skill. A good place to look might be the Custom Tailors and Designers Association ( www.ctda.com ), it is a trade association of Tailors and Custom Clothing shop. They have listings of associated tailors in most every state. A qualified tailor will tell you what they think of the overall fit too, and guide you to what you should be looking for in your future purchases. Who knows, you might even end up thinking of a custom suit at sometime too, and by then you will have established a better relationship with the tailor.

Good luck to you.

 

[Wash In Lux]

As for your alterations, some "alterations" people only want to do the minimum of work on a garment.

Exactly. I have found this to be true with the majority of things nowadays. It goes along with our "disposable society". Nothing made to last, no attention to detail, do the least amount of work and charge the most amount of money, and by all means NEVER go above and beyond.

Also remember, just because somebody is good with a needle and thread, does not mean they have a good eye for fashion or really know how something should look. Back around '94 when I first really started wearing vintage suits, I found myself on a never-ending hunt for a real tailor who could fit a suit properly. Not only was I continually disappointed, it hurt in the wallet as well. I lucked out when I met a girl (now my wife) who's mom was the head of alterations dept. at a department store. She taught me how to alter my own stuff.

Your alterations person either didn't want to do the work or simply has a bad eye for aesthetics, or both. To add on to what T.T. was saying, most folks today wear ill fitting suits. Most of the time they are too big off the rack and then the alterations person who, 1. doesn't care and 2. doesn't really know how a suit should fit, goes about shortening the trousers, taking in the waist, shortening the sleeves and voila! You're draped in a beautiful box (or in your case a skirt) with sleeves around your knuckles and trousers that drag the ground.

You need to decide how you want your suit(s) to look and then dictate to someone who can make it work. I don't care if the opinion of aesthetics is coming from a tailor who makes $3000 custom suits every day. YOUR eye is what matters. YOU are quite capable of deciding what looks good. The simple fact that you're inquiring about aesthetics tells me you "see something". Find somebody to make it happen.

 

[rmrdaddy]

Tailor Tom,
You may want to edit your post regarding the link to the CTDA. You snagged your end parenthesis in the hyperlink, the link doesn't work because of this.

 

[Ugarte]

It sounds to me like you could have the suits tailored fit to you just fine. The fact that the jackets are a little long (and that can't be changed much) may not be so bad because that would make you look slimmer. However, if the jackets are very long on you, you may end up looking like Toulouse Lautrec. The question is, are these suits worth the expense of so much altering?

Tony

The length is not that serious a consideration. At most, they are an inch too long in the skirt. Is it worth having the waist taken in? I have no idea how much such a thing would cost, therefore, I have no idea whether it's worth it. My question again, can it be so hard to nip the waist that it would be cost prohibitive?

Mark
.

 

[Ugarte]

Thanks for the input Tom. See comments inline.

I think a couple of things might be in question here.
First is are they the right size? By that I mean that a lot of men, A LOT, are all wearing the wrong size. They tend to grab the same size off the rack each and every time ( or their spouse does this) and they don't realize that suit sizing changes. As does every designers / labels' because they all wish a different "fit"
Some designers do an industry standard 6" drop ( ie; chest size to waist size...40reg has 34 w. trouser), others do a 7", some do a relaxed fit, others a more fitted look overall, etc.

They are certainly as close as I could get off the rack. As I said, I started fitting the shoulders because I know that is not a practical alteration. If it's a choice between rebuilding a shoulder or nipping a waist, my understanding is that taking in the waist is a relatively minor thing while rebuilding a shoulder is tantamount to recutting the whole jacket (okay, that may be an exaggeration, but I make my point).

The 36 fit nicely in the waist, but the shoulder was just a bit restrictive. I went with the 38 that seemed nice in the shoulders, but left me with the problem I describe above.

I always tell people to try on what they think it their normal size and then try on a size larger and smaller too. A smaller size might fit better in the shoulders, say, and give a trimmer appearance or just might need to be let out a touch.

This is pretty much the method I used, and my reasoning pointed me toward the jacket that fit the shoulder but was way big in the waist.

It also has a lot to do with what size trousers come with the suit coat, and what will have to be done to them, etc.

These pieces were purchased as separates, so I had considerable latitude with respect to fitting trousers. The closest I could get was still about an inch long. I had them taken up and they are not an issue.

Also check out Regular, versus short/long versions too. Most people would want to put me in a regular, but a short actually works better for me, with its shorter rise trousers, place the waistline in a better location on your body, a bit shorter coat overall, and shorter sleeves ( which may still need to be shortened, but not as much as a reg. (and therefore I don't loose the entire sleeve vent).

I am a short, but they were not available in my size at the time. Evidently, guys who wear a 36-38 are more "regular" customers. At any rate, taking up the sleeves is not a huge issue. I tend to lose the fake button holes as two or three buttons need to be relocated and the sleeve vent usually needs to be extended, but I suppose I can live with that.

As for your alterations, some "alterations" people only want to do the minimum of work on a garment. Because that is where/how they make the most money. But taking in sides should be common enough, unless they need to open the armhole to get a "good line" thru the entire seem. Shortening a coat is a bit different, but most can usually be shortened 1" reasonably. But, this can involve remaking vents, etc. and things should always be in proportion, ie; distance from pockets, etc.

I'm not interested in shortening the jackets because I know that would be a fairly big job and the length is not that bothersome. I just can't stand the horrible fit at the waist.

You can look for custom Tailors on your area, most all of them are willing to take care of your alteration needs with great skill. A good place to look might be the Custom Tailors and Designers Association (www.ctda.com), it is a trade association of Tailors and Custom Clothing shop. They have listings of associated tailors in most every state. A qualified tailor will tell you what they think of the overall fit too, and guide you to what you should be looking for in your future purchases. Who knows, you might even end up thinking of a custom suit at sometime too, and by then you will have established a better relationship with the tailor.

Good luck to you.

Again, I appreciate it Tom. I really don't know about custom tailoring in the area, but that may be the way I have to go. I honestly thought this would be a simple thing that I could have taken care of for little money. At this point, I'm looking not just at the question of paying for it, but finding someone to do it. Your input has been informative.

Mark
.

 

[Tomasso]

Is it worth having the waist taken in? I have no idea how much such a thing would cost
.

I would guesstimate in the area of $50. But really, you should find a competent tailor in your area and get their opinion/estimate.

 

[Ugarte]

I would guesstimate in the area of $50. But really, you should find a competent tailor in your area and get their opinion/estimate.

Okay. Thank you sir.

Mark
.

 

[cptjeff]

Thanks for the input Tom. See comments inline.

I am a short, but they were not available in my size at the time. Evidently, guys who wear a 36-38 are more "regular" customers. At any rate, taking up the sleeves is not a huge issue. I tend to lose the fake button holes as two or three buttons need to be relocated and the sleeve vent usually needs to be extended, but I suppose I can live with that.

.

The 36 38 world pisses me off. They expect everyone to be fat, so they only put the short sizes in the larger volume sizes, which leaves us short and fit guys completely out of options, so we buy regulars in frustration and since sales remain steady, they don't bother to change what they stock.

That's if they even make 36 or 38s.

 

[Wash In Lux]

Ugarte,

It IS simple. It's more than likely a matter of just taking in center seam and side seams a bit.

Hey what part of New Mexico by the way?

 

[Wash In Lux]

The 36 38 world pisses me off. They expect everyone to be fat, so they only put the short sizes in the larger volume sizes, which leaves us short and fit guys completely out of options, so we guy regulars in frustration and since sales remain steady, they don't bother to change what they stock.

That's if they even make 36 or 38s.

Very true indeed. It's really been noticeable in the last 20 years. I started working at Bloomingdales in 1986 and we had a decent amount of 36-38S. By the time of my last department store job in '96, if there was a suit I wanted for me, I had to call 20 other stores around the country to try and get it in 36-37S. And nowadays, shorts in that size are pretty much a specialty item. If you're lucky, there'll be 1 short on the rack but, it's the ugliest one.

 

[Ugarte]

Ugarte,

It IS simple. It's more than likely a matter of just taking in center seam and side seams a bit.

Hey what part of New Mexico by the way?

I have no idea how these things are actually made. I just don't know what's simple and what isn't. I'm at their mercy!

I'm in Portales. We are east central, about 100 miles northwest of Lubbock, Texas and about 100 miles southwest of Amarillo, Texas. It's the not-so-picturesque desert part of the state.

Mark
.

 

[Wash In Lux]

I have no idea how these things are actually made. I just don't know what's simple and what isn't. I'm at their mercy!

I'm in Portales. We are east central, about 100 miles northwest of Lubbock, Texas and about 100 miles southwest of Amarillo, Texas. It's the not-so-picturesque desert part of the state.

Mark
.

On a new suit, you've got a full lining so you can't see the inside of the seams (as opposed to 99% of vintage suits where you can see) but, you can see the outside, finished seams. Look at the back of the jackets and find the center seam. Now look to the left and to the right of the center seam, to the next seam over. Those are the side seams. From what you are describing, those three (maybe just the center seam, maybe just the side seams, maybe all three) need to come in a little bit. Try to gather up some fabric on the side seams, toward the hem, maybe a few inches above, and pin it. Try the jacket on and look in the mirror. Better? Still need to gather more? Gather less? Just a little bit of trial and error until you're closer to the look you want. Now find somebody to take it in.

Yeah, I know where Portales is. The majority of my relatives live in various parts of New Mexico. My favorite town on the eastern side is Artesia. Such a lovely smelling town.

 

[Ugarte]

Yeah, I know where Portales is. The majority of my relatives live in various parts of New Mexico. My favorite town on the eastern side is Artesia. Such a lovely smelling town.

I've been there many times. Have fictive relatives there. I'm not one to be critical, but who in their right mind built a town around a working oil refinery? I grew up in Lea County and spent my time in the oilfields. It's a smell you get used to, eventually.


Mark
.

 

[Tailor Tom]

Thanks

Tailor Tom,
You may want to edit your post regarding the link to the CTDA. You snagged your end parenthesis in the hyperlink, the link doesn't work because of this.

Thanks MrDaddy for noticing my mistake...I did correct it.

to add on a bit...The members of CTDA and really any qualified tailor should be able to tell if they can do the alterations, and also more importantly, what is realistic and what is not. Coats can really only be altered so much in order to keep its balance. So that it isn't pulled to the back too much etc.