Horween USA and Aero Leather Joint Statement

[cordwangler]

Search the site for info, people!

Thread on identifying hides from 2007

There have been others over the past few years.

This thread was redundant after the first informative post, right?

 

[cloudylemonade]

Thanks for the information, Holly!

Can you say anything about the black 1950's - steer or horse or a mixture?

And whats about the different structure / grain of the front panels? There are some more concerned with different appearence of the main panels, so it would be fine to get the answer also here in the forum.

Thanks again and kind regards,

Johannes

Sorry, we have some Parisian stockists in the factory this morning so he hasn't seen the other photos yet, will be back to you today.

 

[AEH]

My 1930's Half Belt is clearly goat (as I ordered), but has the FQHH label. I thought that was very odd. No shenanigans involved, but that really puzzles me.

My modified 1950's half belt ordered and delivered (January 2012) in seal goat is labelled as " ... manufactured from horsehide using the original 1920's tanning process."
It also has a label saying that the lining is made from Highlander Wool from Lochcorran, while in reality the lining material was supplied by me. Not a big problem (may become so if one want to resell the jacket), but can be regarded as an indication of a bit of sloppiness in the Aero system at that time?
I second the tip of the hat to Aero Leather for their honesty!

 

[saucerfiend]

Heard from Holly. My Highwayman is HORSEHIDE!!!! That's a relief.

Brian

 

[ando.thun]

Hello cloudylemonade

How about a FAQ page concerning this issue?
i.e. known production date of misslabeled items, types, colours etc.

As i understand, you stand hip deep in a email swamp. Perhaps you can reduce the number of emails.

kind regards Ando

 

[Peter Mackin]

Hi,i have just returned home after a drive down to Aero to meet Holly,Ken @ family,,i now know what great service means,,.The checks on my jacket(s) where very interesting to say the least,,i wont go into details,but if Will lauder offered me a bottle of water when i was lost in the desert,,,i would be very wary,,,i wont be joining any waiting list for his products when he surfaces with his new venture thats for sure .I saw 1st hand the quality of jackets@hides that ken @ the staff are producing @ they are a joy to handle.Aero is now back at its best.I look forward to my new HORSEHIDE jackets ,im sure they will be worth waiting for,,,

 

[caffeinated]

Shenanigans! Is that a Scottish or Irish word?

Happy Aero is so upfront with the issue. I have a question for Holly though.

Based on the information presented so far, I understand that Aero found out that starting a year ago someone was making steerhide jackets and selling them as horse. Additonally, it's been discovered that some horsehide jackets were put together with pieces of steerhide, for whatever reason. I can easily imagine the scenario: "Go ahead, use up that steerhide, what they don't know won't hurt them." Again, I applaud Aero for working so hard to put this right.

My question is: can you say definitively that these shenanigans started around November of 2011? My Cafe Racer purchased through Insurrection in April 2011 couldn't be included? If not November 2011, can you put a date to the beginning of the shenanigans? For our peace of mind.

For what it's worth, even if Holly told me my jacket could be suspect, I'm keeping it. A couple of panels on my jacket have a different grain from the rest, kind of the "jerky" look. Not enough for me to suspect shenanigans (can you tell I like that word?).

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Lungomare]

Shenanigans! Is that a Scottish or Irish word?

(...)

A couple of panels on my jacket have a different grain from the rest, kind of the "jerky" look. Not enough for me to suspect shenanigans (can you tell I like that word?).

Thanks,
Steve

"... a different grain from the rest" - like that?




Common with horsehide? Can you show pics of your jackets showing different grain of the panels?

Kind regards,

Johannes

 

[Cole]

Thanks for the information, Holly!

Whatever you do Johannes, remember that you didn't even wanted to trade this Highwayman in for pure gold. I hope that has not changed, no matter if it's Horse or Steer.

 

[dr.velociraptor]

WOW this is pretty shocking, all those posts going on and on about how superior Aero horsehide is and chances are you had steer. I remember guys telling me my Schott horsehide was basically crap and Aero was much heavier, now Aero says they don't make FQHH jackets heavier than 3 oz, I've measure my Schott HH jacket at 3 ozs, same weight. You guys probably had steer the whole time and were comparing 4+ oz steer to FQHH.

Anyway after the Aero USA mess and now knowingly selling steer as horse and charging such a premium price, I'm sorry but Aero needs to get its house in order, what a mess.

 

[Lungomare]

Whatever you do Johannes, remember that you didn't even wanted to trade this Highwayman in for pure gold. I hope that has not changed, no matter if it's Horse or Steer.

The picture shows my 1950's, not my HWM. And I did ask for pics to compare, not more!

Concerning my HWM I've changed my mind - didn't know Will & Amanda ( n o t Aero Leather !) had foxed me! And how the patina developes I have to find out if I've got a hybrid. Truth is a matter of time (and its merits).

And I do lay claim to "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better"

Kind regards, especially to you, dear Cole,

Johannes

 

[caffeinated]

"... a different grain from the rest" - like that?




Common with horsehide? Can you show pics of your jackets showing different grain of the panels?


Kind regards,

Johannes

Yes, actually. A lot like that. Is that a mixed-hide jacket or all one type?

I can't upload pictures from work, but I'll try to do it tonight when I get home.

 

[frussell]

I've got a quick question while I'm waiting for a reply from Holly. Not to stir this already stormy pot, but has anyone from the U.S. had their jacket confirmed as steer instead of horse? I've seen several U.K. and other "across the pond" customers commenting that they will be getting their situations remedied. Did I miss the U.S. replies to the same tune, or have there not been any? Thanks, Frank.

 

[caffeinated]

There is a part of this that doesn't make any sense. I'm trying to wrap my head around it. If horsehide and steerhide are virtually impossible to tell apart, what is the point of posting pictures to see the grain? Within a certain range, depending on weight and tanning process, they would look the same, wouldn't they? Why do we go to so much trouble?

For what it's worth, here is the pic:

The side panel has a much different look from the upper back panel. However, the bottom panel matches the the grain of the rest of the jacket on the right until it becomes like the mismatched panel on the left. This is why I didn't give it much thought until all this came up. I assumed, and still assume, that the jacket was cut from the same hide and part of it was "grainier" than the rest naturally.

Again, regardless of the answer, I'm keeping the jacket.

 

[Unwissender]

WOW this is pretty shocking, all those posts going on and on about how superior Aero horsehide is and chances are you had steer. I remember guys telling me my Schott horsehide was basically crap and Aero was much heavier, now Aero says they don't make FQHH jackets heavier than 3 oz, I've measure my Schott HH jacket at 3 ozs, same weight. You guys probably had steer the whole time and were comparing 4+ oz steer to FQHH.

Anyway after the Aero USA mess and now knowingly selling steer as horse and charging such a premium price, I'm sorry but Aero needs to get its house in order, what a mess.

The Aero does indeed And that was very good! Better you can not handle something like that. When the storm is over, I order my next jacket from Aero or two jackets!

Maybe there is time to give collectors who want love to have a hybrid? ;-)

 

[Lungomare]

Yes, actually. A lot like that. Is that a mixed-hide jacket or all one type?

Should be a all one type - waiting for Holly's and Ken's opinion. Leather on the right front panel is a little bit softer than the left side ...

Not only a part of a panel is different but the whole right panel looks different!

Any experiences with that? Pics?

Have the same or similar experiences with jackets made before 2011?

Thanks and kind regards,

Johannes

 

[GriffDeLaGriff]

Well my Hgwman has alot off different grain on it. This is my left and right arm:

 

[Peter Mackin]

Sorry to use your statement as a point in case, but I can't help wondering about the cui bono of this case of fraud and the information about it.
Obviously what this thread is not doing, is

• actually resolving the issue for people who bought FQHH and got Steerhide instead
• providing proof and a quantity to be used in court

However, some of the very real effects are:

• harming or downright severing the supply line from Horween to any future venture of Will's.
• making a sharp distinction between "old" and "new" Aero, despite it being a change in management only and not ownership
• harming Will's reputation even before launching a new business
• spread fear uncertainty and doubt about production under Will's directorship
• raising questions why Ken (being the founder and owner) did not control operations for the last few years?

I for one would prefer if this thread was closed, the case brought before court and the result to be presented here. Other than that source, I would not trust anyone.
After all none of the involved parties looks good in this, if you think about it.

Just my 2 cents.

I went down to Aero yest,not just to have the hides checked,but to have many other issues addressed.For the past 18months,i have been left feeling as if iv been having my chain yanked,when all i wanted was what i had paid for..not a lot to ask considering i had spent well in excess of £2500. I feel i am entitled to my opinion considering the service,or lack of in my case,Ken addressed my issues within minutes of me arriving @ that to me says it all......just my 2 cents,,,

 

[Unwissender]

Something good this story has has for Aero. They can demonstrate that they are absolutely trustworthy
A better way to do that, it will not give again. As bad as this story is for all involved.
The Aero reacts, you can hardly enough reward!

I for one stick with Aero Leather jackets for any future and recommend it to continue. And I am asked very frequently, which jacket I'm wearing and where can you buy the.

 

[Lungomare]

There is another thing I noticed. Normally horsehide gets stiff(er) in the cold but my 1950's doesn't, but stays as soft as it is under warm conditions.

I thought horsehide always gets stiffer in the cold because of the special tannery process using wax, etc..

What do you think?

Kind regards,

Johannes

Should be a all one type - waiting for Holly's and Ken's opinion. Leather on the right front panel is a little bit softer than the left side ...

Not only a part of a panel is different but the whole right panel looks different!

Any experiences with that? Pics?

Have the same or similar experiences with jackets made before 2011?

Thanks and kind regards,

Johannes