Horween Chromexel Steer not dyed all the way through

[Highwaymanman]

I have a sample of Horweens Chromexel Black Steer here and been rubbing and scrounging and scuffing and wringing it for a few days now...the brown patina is showing through and a while ago I went and purchased a tin of RAPIDE Leather Cream at the local shoemaker here in town. RAPIDE is a Dutch product and they have an extensive range of leather treatment products for shoes and for all kinds of saddles, bridles and so on. The tin of leather cream I purchased is black and I tried it on the sample piece of leather. Wow! man....it makes it look fantastic and restores the parts where the black has turned to brown and brings out a lovely luster and patina, makes it supple as hell and even smells nice...like almonds. It contains no harmful or unnatural ingredients. You rub it on with your fingers and the warmth of your skin just melts the stuff and it turns into like an oil. Maybe it's for sale there where you are too or perhaps a similar product. Only costs Euro 6-00 here.
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You have to watch with that kind of stuff. I've seen jackets that shed a horrible greasy residue on everything they touched. Overconditioning or conditioning with colored greases can cause this. Seriously, Horween CXL is a high quality storied material. The jacket will outlive you and if it breaks in nice and quick then so much the better. Enjoy!

 

[FredS]

I think you're confusing the term "patina." Patina is not just the brown hide color that is revealed when the dye is rubbed away (aka color loss). Patina is "additive" not lossy. Patina is an additional tarnish or sheen layer that appears on top of the existing dye with age.

Yes you are right and I meant the color loss not patina. I realize patina and colorloss are two different things.

 

[FredS]

You have to watch with that kind of stuff. I've seen jackets that shed a horrible greasy residue on everything they touched. Overconditioning or conditioning with colored greases can cause this. Seriously, Horween CXL is a high quality storied material. The jacket will outlive you and if it breaks in nice and quick then so much the better. Enjoy!

I hear you and you are right. But this product RAPIDE does not turn into such a mess at all. It dries into the leather quite quickly and leaves no sticky residue at all. The surface of the leather is perfectly dry and non-sticky afterwards. I only applied one thin coat and that is enough.

 

[wdw]

Now we're back to you having ordered the wrong type of leather if it's colour-fastness you want. Please think seriously about goat, as you won't need to worry about fading and adding additives then.

The rule of thumb is that if you've any doubt, things won't get any better and you'll end up flipping. Lots of us have been down that road, unfortunately.

 

[Sloan1874]

Aero's advice on conditioning a jacket made from Horween is DON'T, at least not for the first 35 years of it's life. I would be tempted to take what they say as good guidance.

 

[Highwaymanman]

Aero's advice on conditioning a jacket made from Horween is DON'T, at least not for the first 35 years of it's life. I would be tempted to take what they say as good guidance.

I give a second hand jacket a coat of Obenauf's LP when I first get it since you never know what it's been through. didn't do that with my Aero since it was blatantly in like new condition. I've never conditioned a new jacket although my plan is one coat after ten years and then another every five years thereafter.

 

[Capesofwrath]

I've always used Connolly's Hide Food on my leather jackets and car seats. I use it on new Aeros too and I traded a FQHH one in early this year which they sold on their site with glowing prose about how special the hide was and what condition it was in. It was beautiful too. Getting softer but with the colour and depth of a mahogany sideboard.

Naturally I didn't mention my regular use of said product because it screws the hide up as we all know....

 

[FredS]

Aero's advice on conditioning a jacket made from Horween is DON'T, at least not for the first 35 years of it's life. I would be tempted to take what they say as good guidance.

On Horween's website there is the following line with regards to conditioning Chromexel:
" The last step for Chromexcel is coat of Neatsfoot Oil, so when people ask me how to condition this leather, that’s always my first recommendation."

I think the reason that Aero says don't is that it is not necessary but I don't think it will cause any damage if one does. Or what kind of damage do you think would or could occur?

 

[FredS]

I've always used Connolly's Hide Food on my leather jackets and car seats. I use it on new Aeros too and I traded a FQHH one in early this year which they sold on their site with glowing prose about how special the hide was and what condition it was in. It was beautiful too. Getting softer but with the colour and depth of a mahogany sideboard.

Naturally I didn't mention my regular use of said product because it screws the hide up as we all know....

Oh does it? Pray do tell me more as i am one of those few who doesn't belong to the "we" as in "as we all know"

 

[Peacoat]

Back to fit: It has been my experience that the custom jackets from Scotland are built for a trim fit. Sometimes the fit is such that even a thin sweater is more than can be worn underneath. If you want a looser fit, to layer a sweater for instance, let them know. Otherwise, it may be a tighter fit than you were expecting.

 

[Jeff M]

On Horween's website there is the following line with regards to conditioning Chromexel:
" The last step for Chromexcel is coat of Neatsfoot Oil, so when people ask me how to condition this leather, that’s always my first recommendation."

I think the reason that Aero says don't is that it is not necessary but I don't think it will cause any damage if one does. Or what kind of damage do you think would or could occur?

I may be misreading Capesofwrath's post..but I think he was being sarcastic.

FWIW, when I used to use neat oil on leather baseball gloves many years back I felt it soaked into the leather more than I wanted, making it heavier.

I use Pecard's "Antique Leather" treatment sparingly on my many leather jackets and have not noticed any issues with that or the excessive leather darkening that I used to see with neatsfoot oil.

(FWIW, from Wikepedia;

"Neatsfoot oil was originally tendered from the fats obtained from the shinbones and feet of cattle, as it stayed in liquid form at room temperature. ...
These days it is made from cattle based products, primarily lard. If mineral oil or other petroleum based product is added, it is called "neatsfoot oil compound". ..
Some brands have been shown to be adulterated with rapeseed, soya and other oils.

The addition of mineral oils may lead to more rapid decay of non-synthetic stitching or speed breakdown of the leather itself...

If used on important historical objects, neatsfoot oil (like other leather dressings) can oxidize with time and contribute to embrittling.[6] It also may leave an oily residue that can attract dust. On newer leather, it may cause darkening (even after a single application), thus may not be a desirable product to use when the maintenance of a lighter shade is desired. Neatsfoot oil is more useful for routine use on working equipment...".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neatsfoot_oil

(Natural oils degrade...ie, turn rancid...over time. I suspect the more they soak into the leather, the more of an issue that will be for the leather.)


I haven't seen neatsfoot oil used by my fellow leather addicted friends for many a year now. )

 

[ButteMT61]

Thanks Jeff. I remember that info being posted here at least 20x.
The problem is as you say - people overdo it. Keep soaking a perfectly good/new jacket until it weighs 2 pounds more and is greasy. It's not just not helping, it's likely prematurely aging the leather and stitching. I very light coat (I use either Pecards or Lexol depending on which leather it is) once a year should keep it good for decades. The only jackets I used more on were my riding jackets (leather) that got soaked and ridden near the beach and dirty.
It's very hard NOT to treat things made of leather. I know, I went through the 12-step program here on TFL to cut down. But once you see how leather does all on it's own, you'll be a believer. A little is OK. As long as it's the right juice.

 

[handymike]

This is what a 10 year old jacket should look like. Not a 6 mo old one. It looks very cool to me, but I can see your concern.

 

[Jeff M]

Here is a link to an interesting site re; leather preservation, the Canadian Conservation Institute;

http://www.cci-icc.gc.ca/publications/notes/8-2-eng.aspx

Their comments on "treating" leather;

"The application of leather dressings and saddle soap, as was recommended in the first edition of this CCI Note, is now not generally recommended as a treatment for leather. Dressings, which consist of oils, waxes, or oil emulsions, were applied in an attempt to make stiff leathers softer and more flexible. Many leather dressings are available on the market: British Museum Leather Dressing®, neat's foot oil, lanolin, etc. Research has since shown that dressings are generally not effective in preserving leather (McCrady and Raphael, 1987). Unless the oil content of the leather is known through chemical analysis to be too low, applied oils from a dressing can cause further stiffening by dehydrating the leather (Stambolov et al., 1984). Furthermore, many oils and fats used in leather dressings lubricate in the short term but oxidize with time, resulting in additional stiffening of the leather. There are many other problems created by applying a leather dressing, including the darkening of the leather's surface, the staining of surrounding materials and the risk of attracting dust or insects."

 

[sshack]

This is what a 10 year old jacket should look like. Not a 6 mo old one. It looks very cool to me, but I can see your concern.

Not even 6 months. More like 2 months.

 

[hyptul]

What year is your cordovan from?

2012

 

[ButteMT61]

Y'all need to get denim jackets or something. Leather looks great when worn. At least to me it does. I give. UNCLE II. lol

 

[Plumbline]

Just caught up on this ....

12 pages almost on the durabillity of Horween CXL ..

As you say .. the CXL Steer .. in black / burgandy / brown ... or any other colour for that matter ... is hand applied and surface dyed ( not vat dipped but hand applied to the finished surface of the leather).

The base leather is dark brown and chrome tanned ( as opposed to veg tanned) ..... this results in a VERY hard wearing natural coloured hide which has a topcoat of pigment dye. Not only will it scrape of ( if you fall off your bike for example exposing the brown hide base layer) but equally it wears off with age and will also show some exposure when the jacket is assembled in corners etc. THIS IS NOT A FLAW ... just a feature of the hide ( and this is almost identical to the FQHH process with minor changes in treatment oils and fats).

(Note the veg tanned process results in a deep penetrtive dye since this is a vat soaked process ... so if you look at the suedded layer / back side of the leather it's black / brown / burgundy as per the front)

It wears very well ... and the colours wear in a unique and subtle fashion. The coulour doesnt crack or split but rather high points wear through exposing the brown base layer. If this is an issue it can easilly be touched up with either boot / shoe polish or leather dye ... although I've never had the need / inclination.

Note most chrome tanned leathers are the same .... aand likewise veg tanned ...... there are some vat diped chrome tanned leathers but these are few and far between.

Some high level points :

1. I would have no concerns re. durabillity of CXL ... it has almost 100 years of history behind it ...... it's track record as both a motorcycle leather material and also a workwear material is clear.

2. The look / feel and wear of Horwen CXL is almost unique in the leather industry ... there are many similars but no identical leathers ..... this is the legacy of Horween.

It's horses for courses .. many people I have shown Horween leather jackets to have commented on how heavy, stiff and thick it is compared to modern thinner and lighter hides. It's horses ( or cows) for courses ..... there are many leathers out there and more than enough to satisfy any taste / preference. Many on here love the heritage and pedigree of Horween CXL ... and purchase it accordingly, you pays yer money and takes yer choice.

HTH

 

[pipvh]

Speaking for myself, I'd have been delighted if my old Aero FQHH halfbelt had worn in as quickly as his. I dig that scuffed look. I'm with Butte on this one: leather is an organic material, no matter how many chemicals you slather it with. People seem to think wear is a bug, but it's a feature...

 

[Capesofwrath]

Speaking for myself, I'd have been delighted if my old Aero FQHH halfbelt had worn in as quickly as his. I dig that scuffed look. I'm with Butte on this one: leather is an organic material, no matter how many chemicals you slather it with. People seem to think wear is a bug, but it's a feature...

"Do not do unto others as you would have them do unto you...you may not have the same tastes."

GB Shaw