Horsehide can be pretty stiff...

[Infinitum]

Love it!

 

[Atterbury Dodd]

Cool What is the jacket?

 

[Fletch]

It's a Californian. Classic halfbelt/sidetab style in FQHH. Made by California Sportswear in the 40s and now reproed by Good Wear. Which is this, Infinitum?

 

[Infinitum]

Cool What is the jacket?

Thanks. Fletch is correct - it is a FQHH Good Wear "Californian Ventura" made by John Chapman. :eusa_clap

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The super heavy super stiff horsehide used by several of the current manufacturers is, IMO, too heavy to make a truly functional garment. I am not a fan. When there are stories (some recounted around these parts) of people getting welts from rubbing of unbendable hide (particularly in the inner elbows, I believe) it would suggest that the hide has got beyond what might be considered robust and has entered the masochistic realm.

I prefer my horsehide with substantially less "ounceage". Weight of hide does not necessarily mean more resilient to damage.

bk

 

[DJS Press]

Get a new FQHH Aero sometime.

 

[Fletch]

Baron, don't you let Stuart Clurman hear you talking like that or he'll call you a "basement bombardier." lol

 

[Baron Kurtz]

ha ha. Yes, I believe the basement bombardiers are officially the chaps who think they can identify hide from blurry 60-year-old photographs, taken 30 feet from the jackets. Or those who, in Clurman's opinion, are overly obsessed with pocket stitch spacing and such. Truly giggle worthy.

As for Aero's front quarter stuff. have they got a "new" one? The jackets i've encountered from Aero were no heavier than the typical 1940s German "heavy bull-hide". But they seemed substantially stiffer. of course, this could simply be due to 60-70 years of wear making the hide supple. I'm just not a fan of stiff hide.

bk

 

[Tomasso]

I'm just not a fan of stiff hide.

Nor am I, outside of shoes and belts that type of leather doesn't belong on a body. It's more suited for luggage, upholstery, etc.....

 

[jimmer_5]

My one Horsehide jacket is my Aero "ACE" Half Belt that I received in May 2010 - it is stiff, but much more soft and pliable than my heavy Steerhide Highwayman from May 2009. Perhaps the Horsehide for mine was a lighter piece than usual - I was actually a bit disappointed when I first received it, but it really is a very functional garment, and it's only noticably stiff when I first put it on in the morning (cold leather perhaps?)

On the other hand, the Heavy Steerhide jacket is actually difficult to wear because it is so thick. It isn't really broken in, and I think that is a big part of it. Despite the difficulty, I am seriously considering ordering another ACE in Brown Heavy Steer and seeing if I can tame the beast! I am quite taken with the super thick leather, and I'd like to really try to break one in properly.

 

[Infinitum]

Same jacket worn... not that stiff, IMO. 3oz, according to Mr. Chapman. Not the 4oz+ monster hides that Aero uses.

 

[Tomasso]

I am quite taken with the super thick leather.....

Oh, I know, and you have brethren here on the FLounge.

 

[Bonneville]

Interesting to hear people's different experiences/perceptions of the wearability according to "ounces".
Does anyone happen to know what Vanson's competion weight might be in ounces?

(nice colour brown on the Goodwear)

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I'm not so sure it's just ounces that matter, but don't know enough about tanning to know where the stiffness of a hide is "generated".

Obviously a hide starts out being super supple, when it's on the horse's back. Sometime between then and becoming a jacket, the variable stiffness of different pieces of hide is generated.

bk

p.s. That is a perfect fit on that Goodwear. Looks great! Can we see the back (appears to have cinch belts?)?

 

[WalkingBoy]

Baron...Agree with your sentiments..I'm not one for 'bullet proof' Horsehide, and have said so in an earlier post about Aero's jackets (ducks for cover)...
not very functional and there are issues with sewing and detailing that are hard to achieve with stiff/thick hides. I tried an Aero on in a vintage store..it looked great but I couldn't move my arms, and its was so heavy my neck was cramping.
I like the idea of stiffness vs thickness? Are they the same? I'm thinking not, because some vintage horsehide can be lighter but there's a crispness to it that gives the jacket a lovely structure. Softer hides causes the jacket to lose structure and shape, if you're into that level of detail ( which I am sadly ) ..I've got a 1950's Celco FQHH that is no where near as thick as the Aero stuff. IMHO some period leathers are thinner but also balance stiffness and suppleness. Something in the way they're tanned...

 

[Baron Kurtz]

you mustn't lose sight of the fact that they're very old, too. I'm sure that wearing and exposure to the elements changes the hide. Who knows what those old horsehide jackets were like when first delivered.

(incidentally, I much prefer goatskin jackets)

bk

 

[Seb Lucas]

Yeah, I'd take goat over horse any day too.

 

[bumphrey hogart]

Imo it's fairly easy to change how stiff/supple a jacket is by treating it,I recently bought an aero off the bay that was very stiff and dry when it arrived. Careful application of conditioner has made it far more supple,trying to bend my arms in it was uncomfortable at first,now it's beginning to mold to the shape of my body.

 

[Peacoat]

My one Horsehide jacket is my Aero "ACE" Half Belt that I received in May 2010 - it is stiff, but much more soft and pliable than my heavy Steerhide Highwayman from May 2009. Perhaps the Horsehide for mine was a lighter piece than usual - I was actually a bit disappointed when I first received it, but it really is a very functional garment, and it's only noticably stiff when I first put it on in the morning (cold leather perhaps?)

On the other hand, the Heavy Steerhide jacket is actually difficult to wear because it is so thick. It isn't really broken in, and I think that is a big part of it. Despite the difficulty, I am seriously considering ordering another ACE in Brown Heavy Steer and seeing if I can tame the beast! I am quite taken with the super thick leather, and I'd like to really try to break one in properly.

I think once you get it broken it, you will be quite pleased with the jacket. Although I'm not sure you will ever "tame the beast." My steer Highwayman is about 3 years old and still stands on its own. With this jacket I did what I do with all leather jackets that need to be tamed before wearing in public: I wore it. If a jacket comes in during the summer, I wear it in the house for several hours a day until it is comfortable. Then when Fall comes, it gets the normal wear outside. As I remember, this jacket took a month or so of indoor wear to get it broken in, with frequent flexing at the elbows for the first few days. As it came in March, I was able to get in some outdoor wear as well. I think I wore it on a few rides after the indoor treatment and before it got too warm for leather. I follow the HJohnson method of break-in: Wear it for 50 years, and then it will be broken in.

 

[WalkingBoy]

you mustn't lose sight of the fact that they're very old, too. I'm sure that wearing and exposure to the elements changes the hide. Who knows what those old horsehide jackets were like when first delivered.

(incidentally, I much prefer goatskin jackets)

bk

yep..wear is a big factor too. Agree about goatskin...very underated hide/skin. I read somewhere that comparatively, goat is on par with
horsehide for durability and hard wearing. John Chapman told me that goat is pretty hard to work with as it doesn't fold n stay the way horsehide does, but the results are beautiful, when it works...And i love the pebbly grain to it