Homburg Nation

[mayserwegener]

Vmtrevino2, Thanks! Your Pinnacles look great! It's nice to see a conversion in the other direction (snap brim to curled brim)!

 

[skid lid]

I had these Stetson Pinnacles made into homburgs at The Hat Store in Houston, TX. My fraternal twins

I really like them, especially the black one.

 

[vmtrevino2]

Thanks. The homburg is usually thought of as a formal lid but I like to use it casually with a camp shirt and slacks. Oh can't forget the Stacy Adams wing tip shoes that I also use casually.

 

[vmtrevino2]

This was at the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo

 

[vmtrevino2]

Got my eye on this for the summer

 

[Daniele Tanto]

A really interesting interpretation of the Homburg by Optimo
I think you have to wear it before to buy.
As passionate lover of this kind of hat it could really change your look.

 

[vmtrevino2]

The only problem is that it can cost a few thousand dollars depending on the tightness of the weaving. I have a couple hat stores looking into a more economic alternative

 

[-30-]

It appears to be more of a lords; Lord's; Lords' hat, rather than a homburg.
(Other than that, it having no bound edge, I really like it.)


Regards,
J T

 

[vmtrevino2]

I had never heard of a lords hat until I joined this forum. It is a beautiful hat

 

[Kuki]

Hello everyone, I need your assistance regarding the brim binding on homburgs. Those of you who own a vintage one, would you say the brim is wired to preserve the tightness of the curl? Or is it just stiffened to death? I'm having some issues with the binding staying nice and taught.
Thanks in advance!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mayserwegener]

The felt ones didn't have wired brims (at least the ones I have). I am not sure if there are any vintage straw Homburg examples here (you would have to search). Modern felt and straw Homburgs fall short when it comes to brim execution (not the proper flange, brim curl and brim stiffness). Also your choice of ribbon type is not desirable for the style (it might be better to go with no binding with a straw).

Here are some vintage felt (German and Austrian makers) examples of what they should look like.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/3-mayser-hutfabrik/page-2#entry345

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/5-p-c-habig-hutfabrik/#entry41

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/6-johann-hueckel%C2%B4s-soehne-hueckel-hutfabrik-weilheim/page-6#entry697

Partial View of the Brim Curling and Binding Department, Mayser (1925)

They are working on felt Homburg like hats. The Homburg term wasn't used in Germany or Austria. They were just known as Modehut (Fashion Hat). The men on the right are making the curl and the lady at the far left is applying the binding (notice the specialized machine).

Actually here is a old / rare (pre WWII) German Echt Panama (back bow) that I recently lost on auction. It has seen better days but you can see what remains of the brim treatment on the left side and front.

 

[Kuki]

Thank you Mayserwegener for the amazing reply. You might have nailed it with the type if ribbon, I have used milliners grosgrain that has a ribbed edge and lots of stretch (allowing it to curl), I will try with hatters ribbon (no ribbed edge) that has less give. I do like the edge bound panama, I'm not intending to make a replica but a "new" design. I've made the block myself. In any case I'm now working on a felt version. I will keep you appraised of my progress.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mayserwegener]

I really like the color combination and felt finish! Yes the ribbon type is very important. Also the brim stiffness, flange and curl. This is if you want to try to approximate (something I haven't come across) a high end antique Homburg. For example take a look at the ribbon / binding type, brim curl, binding application and flange (smile like) on this Hückel Weilheim Exklusiv Homburg.

You may want to take a look at this thread. It's a stiff felt but you can see how this person was able to match the original binding with Mokuba silk ribbon. The binding application is complex and requires hand stitching. Stiff felts are also a lost art and even more so than Homburgs.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?64813-Bowler-edge-trim-replacement

Mokuba silk ribbon is pricey and difficult to source but this is the type of ribbon that would work / look best (also if you can find a vintage equivalent). Homburgs were usually high price point hats with high price point components.

This place has Mokuba Bridal Silk Taffeta Ribbon in black (also white but not sure if other colors are available).

http://www.silkribbon.com/collections/mokuba

http://www.silkribbon.com/collections/mokuba/products/bridal-silk-taffeta-ribbon

Mokuba NYC with other locations listed.

http://www.mokubany.com/

 

[Kuki]

Hi again mayserwegener,

You're a wealth of information and I appreciate you taking the time to talk this over with me. Thank you also for sharing the sources for the ribbon.

That Hückel Weilheim Exklusiv is a beauty. I'm in awe at that curl... really?!! how on earth did they manage that?!! That's just showing off!! It's done post blocking surely otherwise it would be impossible to unblock... but with that curve on the brim... wow, some very special tools have gone into the making of that beautiful hat. A friend has old curling irons and she will lend them to me, let's see if I manage to get a decent curl (I've seen a video on youtube of the process, I will watch again!). But I think I will leave that for personal projects, as my customer has put pressure to lower the price and as a result the binding has to be machine stitched (although I will hand baste it).

The question I have is, how stiff is the brim?... at least the curl must be seriously rigid otherwise it would have lost its curl after all these years. Is the whole brim rock hard like a bowler?... sorry for bombarding you with questions, I've never had a real homburg in my hands.

Back to the ribbon I've been lucky to score some vintage ribbon from some guys who bought a lot from a closing factory. I'm in Barcelona and we're also lucky to have a Mokuba store here, but they are expensive as hell. Let's see if I manage with the vintage ribbon (which seems to be made out of some cellulose based material -from the smell when I burned a scrap-... cotton or rayon is my guess):

I'm very pleased you like the colour combination of the prototype homburg. The felt is fur felt velour which I love, it doesn't have the weight or stiffness of men's felt (those are only made on the most boring colours and finishes), but it does a very good job if stiffened and is gorgeous. Unfortunately my customer wants them in brown and dark grey felt, but still the velour will give it a luxurious feel. Another good detail will be the italian silk tie fabric I'm using for the lining, I love it, will post pictures of it when they're finished.
I'm optimistic about the binding with the new ribbon, but I have not worked on it yet. I will keep you updated!
Thanks again for your help!

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks! Most high end German and Austrian Homburgs (called Modehut in pre WWII Germany and Austria) had such curls so not showing off. If you look at the Mayser photo above you will see the men on the left working on such brims. Some of them worked for the company for more than 50 years so you can imagine the skill / knowledge. I have unearthed a lot of information from pre WWII German and Austrian sources on such subjects. The problem is the industry is not even close to what it once was so much has been lost.

The old Homburg hats have less stiff crowns (assuming open crown) and the brims stiffer to hold the curl. Homburgs have machine stitched bindings and the brims are not nearly as rigid as stiff felt hats (Bowler, Derby, Melone, Bombatta) which (usually) have heavier weight felt. As I mentioned you can see the men in the Mayser photo using the curling irons on the flanged brims and the lady using the special machine to sew the binding.

Yes the Mokuba ribbon is very expensive so if you can find a vintage source that would be best. The vintage ribbon you acquired should work / look much better.

Where did you source the Velour? I am a big collector of old (pre WWII) Austrian and German Velour hats. You might want to take a look at my website. I am always adding new information from old German and Austrian sources.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/

 

[Kuki]

Hi again,
I sourced the velour directly from the manufacturer Tonak, in the Czech Republic. It used to be impossible to purchase from them because of very large MOQs, but these days they have a website set up and there are no minimum quantities. The colours are really gorgeous and the quality and feel of the felts too: http://www.hatparade.eu/
Will keep you posted on my progress,

 

[mayserwegener]

TONAK was J. Hückel´s Söhne up to WWII who produced some of the finest Austrian Velours. This part of Czech Republic was Austria prior to WWI (Neutitschein, Austria -> Novy Jicin, Czechoslovakia). The Velours in that time were hand hot wet brushed which is very time consuming / difficult and could take weeks to complete the process.

J. Hückel´s Söhne Superior Crystall Velour (1930s)


http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/6-johann-hueckel%C2%B4s-soehne-hueckel-hutfabrik-weilheim/page-2#entry273

J. Hückel´s Söhne (JHS)

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/6-johann-hueckel%C2%B4s-soehne-hueckel-hutfabrik-weilheim/

I visited Novy Jicin and TONAK back in 2011.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/74-novy-jicin-city-museum-hat-collection/#entry432

Rare photo of Mayser's Velour Manual Wet Brushing (1925).

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/3-mayser-hutfabrik/page-6#entry1000

Look forward to your progress!

 

[Kuki]

Must spend some serious time looking at your website, I feel I'm going to love it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kuki]

Finished homburg in dark grey velour on display. It's part of a collection I've made for the new brand (Misui) of a luxury shop in Barcelona (Union Suiza). Their core business is jewelry, but with the new brand they've branched out into shoes and hats. An intriguing proposition that I hope pays out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Brava Cristina!
Homburgs are my beloved type of hats.
I have some Europeans (French, Italians, Germans) and I say that your is really well made.
Go on and next time I will be in Barcelona I will try to see your homburg.
Complimenti!