Homburg Nation

[Zanzibarstar]

Thank you. I wanted a homburg for a while but was fussy and only wanted vintage, because my reasoning was that a hat which I'd mostly use for formalwear needs to be of the high quality usually only found in vintage hats.

It can go with anything, but I like dressing by the rules of the past since I think those rules are better. I also think that the formality of the hat makes it look odd with anything less than a suit. Plus in the case of my picture the colour doesn't go too well with what I'm wearing.

Well, I'd say you can definitely pull off wearing that homburg with the suit you're wearing in that picture! Its an interesting look, being a dark hat and shades along with the lighter suit. But I can also understand wanting to follow a certain set of rules. (I once went for a year wearing only black, white, and blue clothing.) Do what you feel.

 

[mayserwegener]

It's a question I hope the lounge can answer. The only makers I'd rule out are Locke & co and Christys because they had a good reputation and wouldn't need to use Stetson's.

Something about the hat seems German though, since it says Groningen (presumably Gröningen) which sounds like a German town to me.

That is the name of the town and shop where it was sold. I am not sure about the reputation thing. It was common to OEM product.

 

[avedwards]

That is the name of the town and shop where it was sold. I am not sure about the reputation thing. It was common to OEM product.

What I meant is that I can hardly imagine makers as prestigious as Locke and Christys using a name other than their own.

 

[mayserwegener]

What I meant is that I can hardly imagine makers as prestigious as Locke and Christys using a name other than their own.

Oh really? Prestigious hat companies did this all the time but I guess not in England.

 

[avedwards]

Oh really? Prestigious hat companies did this all the time but I guess not in England.

What I said was only my guess. The English mentality, at least then, would have meant that those two would probably have had too much pride to use another maker's name. However, that is just a guess and I have no evidence to back it up.

 

[mayserwegener]

It can go with anything, but I like dressing by the rules of the past since I think those rules are better. I also think that the formality of the hat makes it look odd with anything less than a suit. Plus in the case of my picture the colour doesn't go too well with what I'm wearing.

The style became more formal (power elite) over time. Original design concept was based on a hunting hat worn by Wilhelm II. At that time they had very tall tapered crowns.

Here is a black fellow wearing one in a casaul setting (this is from a 1938 street scene photo RLK posted a while back).

 

[mayserwegener]

What I said was only my guess. The English mentality, at least then, would have meant that those two would probably have had too much pride to use another maker's name. However, that is just a guess and I have no evidence to back it up.

They might have OEMed hats themselves. It was / is common practice. Factories had to keep running and making money.

 

[billyspew]

Interesting! I wonder who the had the licence? I know Mayser did in Germany.

Best guess is that it was one of the Denton, Manchester based hatting firms. I've been going through old newspapers for about 6 month looking for a reference, but to no avail. However Denton was the centre of the hatting industry here at that time with many factories.

 

[mayserwegener]

Best guess is that it was one of the Denton, Manchester based hatting firms. I've been going through old newspapers for about 6 month looking for a reference, but to no avail. However Denton was the centre of the hatting industry here at that time with many factories.

Billy, Thanks! Do you know if those factories OEMed hats to the likes of Christys?

 

[rlk]

Robert, you still have this beauty?

Just read this...Yes I still have it. Actually larger than my size so I pad it, works for some extra ventilation.

 

[rlk]

It's a question I hope the lounge can answer. The only makers I'd rule out are Locke & co and Christys because they had a good reputation and wouldn't need to use Stetson's.

Something about the hat seems German though, since it says Groningen (presumably Gröningen) which sounds like a German town to me.

The Jonkhoff name and the city of Groningen are from the Netherlands.

 

[avedwards]

The Jonkhoff name and the city of Groningen are from the Netherlands.

Thanks for clarifying. That does complicate my little mystery. Why would an English made hat have a Dutch name in it?

 

[mayserwegener]

Thanks for clarifying. That does complicate my little mystery. Why would an English made hat have a Dutch name in it?

That is the name of the shop that sold it. It is common to have the shop name and location printed on sweatband and liner. The shop sourced hats from Stetson - England.

 

[Brad Bowers]

1950s Cavanagh Homburg

Here is one of my latest acquisitions, a 1950s Cavanagh Homburg. The liner address tells us that the hat dates approximately between 1950 and 1961, though it could be a couple of years into the ‘40s.

It has the typical Cavanagh Homburg binding, where it’s stitched to the underside of the brim (even though, once curled, it’s on top), and folded back over itself and stitched down on the topside of the brim. A similar technique is used to bind Derbies, though their binding folds over from the topside to the underside, opposite of the Homburg. (Confused yet?)

Brim width is a nominal 2 ½ all the way around the outer edge of the curl, a width typical of a ‘50s hat.

The width of the sweatband is 1 ¾”.

Block number 5064, 5 ¾” crown height. 7 1/8, too small for me.

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

1930s Cavanagh Homburg

My other latest acquisition is this gem. I wanted it to compare to the ‘50s model, to see how things changed over a couple of decades. This one, I'm fairly certain, came directly from the Park Avenue Shop. Most of the Cavanagh hats sold during the 1930s came from the Park Avenue shop, as they didn’t begin doing a large business through their “Associates” around the country until the 1940s.

The brim width is a nominal 2 inches, certainly in line with a ‘30s hat.

The liner tells us that this hat comes from about 1936 onward, though it’s probably pre-1940, as it still has a taped sweatband seam. The width of the sweatband is 2 1/4".

Instead of a bow at the back of the hatband, there is a Cavanagh logo clip. Douglas has the only other one of these I think we’ve seen.

Notice that this hat is also block number 5064, crown height 5 ¾”, essentially the same hat as the ‘50s Homburg I posted earlier. The reorder number is different. What’s odd about this hat is that it appears to be a size 7 1/8, though there is also a 3 right after it. If I think of the Cavanagh sizing system, this could be interpreted as 7 1/8 plus 3, meaning plus 3 lignes, or 3/32 of a hat size, since there are 4 lignes per 1/8 hat size. That would also make this 7 ¼ minus one. The funny thing is, this hat fits me just fine, and I’m slightly over 7 3/8! Even at 7 ¼ minus 1, it still should be too small. It doesn’t appear to have shrunk any, and I’ve not found Cavanaghs to run large. So, I remain confused.

On the inside of the sweatband there is a stamped logo. I can read “NAGH” and see some other shapes, though it’s almost impossible to tell what it is.

It looks very reminiscent of this logo, though this Homburg doesn’t have a Cavanagh Edge.

Many hats, however, were made using the Cavanagh Edge process but had their edges removed prior to leaving the factory as raw brims or bound brims. Perhaps the stamp signifies that.

Brad

 

[mayserwegener]

Both are gems but the 1930s one is amazing! The binding treatments are unique / great. Interesting sizing issue but great that it fits like 7 3/8.

:eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap

 

[Brad Bowers]

Thanks! It didn't matter to me what sizes they were, but I'm always happy when one fits me. The seller did advertise that it was 7 1/4 to 7 1/2, but I took it with a grain of salt.

Brad

 

[KY_RudeBoy]

My first Homburg. It's a Francato Cappello and it's a little battered but not abused. It seems that it mostly just needs a little re-shaping. The ribbon has faded on one side, but I really like it. To me it has that "well-dressed vagabond" look.

 

[jwalls]

My application for membership

I made this hat from an old body I acquired from a friend. It feels like a good beaver blend. http://www.myphotos.yahoo.com/s/20um7cjq58enekmx65cs

 

[mayserwegener]

Great job! Lets see some liner and sweatband shots! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap