Homburg Nation

[mayserwegener]

Echter Rockel "Haar", 58 cm, possibly early to mid 1950s. The Felt color is Dark Blue and the Felt has a very nice hand plus easily dry creases. The the Sweatband is a matching Dark Blue.

Open Crown

 

[mayserwegener]

Echter Mayser "Spezial", 59 cm possibly mid 1950s. The Black Felt has a great Finish and easily dry creases. Classic Form with very stylish Bow design which Mayser used often with their Homburgs in this time period.

Open Crown

 

[steur]

Echter Mayser "Spezial", 59 cm possibly mid 1950s. The Black Felt has a great Finish and easily dry creases. Classic Form with very stylish Bow design which Mayser used often with their Homburgs in this time period.

Open Crown

We need more homburgs like this to keep the nation happy!

 

[mayserwegener]

We need more homburgs like this to keep the nation happy!

Stefan, I brought it back to page one. Thanks!

 

[PanosChris]

I usually tend to go for the smaller niche threads, but this is again one of those that are prone to raise debates regarding the origin, so I'll just put it here and I'll call it European

I had it in my watch list for a long time, I guess others too. Yet another black Homburg...the bow and a discount price made me pulling the trigger in the end.
What I couldn't guess is that it is a wool felt! Also it has the old style "rope" wind cord. I am thinking 30s, though that's just an assumption.

 

[Blare]

I usually tend to go for the smaller niche threads, but this is again one of those that are prone to raise debates regarding the origin, so I'll just put it here and I'll call it European

I had it in my watch list for a long time, I guess others too. Yet another black Homburg...the bow and a discount price made me pulling the trigger in the end.
What I couldn't guess is that it is a wool felt! Also it has the old style "rope" wind cord. I am thinking 30s, though that's just an assumption.

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What a cool hat Panos. I think it found the right home. Love the unusual bow and the tall crown

 

[mayserwegener]

I usually tend to go for the smaller niche threads, but this is again one of those that are prone to raise debates regarding the origin, so I'll just put it here and I'll call it European

I had it in my watch list for a long time, I guess others too. Yet another black Homburg...the bow and a discount price made me pulling the trigger in the end.
What I couldn't guess is that it is a wool felt! Also it has the old style "rope" wind cord. I am thinking 30s, though that's just an assumption.

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Panos, Super find! Is it made of Wool? It looks older but could be an outlier. It's not English. My guess would be French.

 

[PanosChris]

What a cool hat Panos. I think it found the right home. Love the unusual bow and the tall crown

Thanks Joe, much appreciated!

 

[PanosChris]

Panos, Super find! Is it made of Wool? It looks older but could be an outlier. It's not English. My guess would be French.

Steve, thanks! I am having similar thoughts. Yes it's wool! If I knew it before I would have bought it a long time ago. Glad it was still there.

 

[Steve1857]

I usually tend to go for the smaller niche threads, but this is again one of those that are prone to raise debates regarding the origin, so I'll just put it here and I'll call it European

I had it in my watch list for a long time, I guess others too. Yet another black Homburg...the bow and a discount price made me pulling the trigger in the end.
What I couldn't guess is that it is a wool felt! Also it has the old style "rope" wind cord. I am thinking 30s, though that's just an assumption.

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Nice job on finally pulling the trigger on that one, Panos. Great ribbon and bow treatment. Wonderful dark black felt.
French indeed, I'd say.

 

[PanosChris]

Thank you Steve!

 

[Steve1857]

I usually tend to go for the smaller niche threads, but this is again one of those that are prone to raise debates regarding the origin, so I'll just put it here and I'll call it European

I had it in my watch list for a long time, I guess others too. Yet another black Homburg...the bow and a discount price made me pulling the trigger in the end.
What I couldn't guess is that it is a wool felt! Also it has the old style "rope" wind cord. I am thinking 30s, though that's just an assumption.

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I'm going to back track a bit on my previous post, Panos. Obviously this hat was sold in a French hat shop, but I think it may well be English made.

Here are some examples from an Oldham & Fogg trade catalogue I have from the 1920s. They are not the same as the logo on your hat, but similar. I'm not saying yours is an Oldham & Fogg, but it could quite well be English (Manchester area) made.

The lion and unicorn are heraldic symbols of the UK btw. The lion being England and the unicorn Scotland.

 

[Norman Ovens]

My family lived and worked in Hyde, Cheshire, England and next door Denton, Lancashire. I was raised in Hyde and still have family living in both towns. Two major hat-producing areas. My 2nd great grandfather, great-grandparents, and grandparents all worked as Felt hatmakers and trimmers. In the mid to late 1800's my family in Hyde, worked at Brookside Felt Hat Manufactory, this factory later became Oldham and Fogg, which was bought by Vero and Everritt in 1955, this company was dissolved in 1989. I found this group as I searched for the history, I'm very interested in capturing some information about hats produced from 1900 to 1939 by my family. Searches led me to some of your forum's discussions on Oldham and Fogg catalogs and Hats. I'd love to learn what I can from you and see any information you may have.

 

[Norman Ovens]

Some pictures of the factory and details regarding my family.

 

[steur]

My family lived and worked in Hyde, Cheshire, England and next door Denton, Lancashire. I was raised in Hyde and still have family living in both towns. Two major hat-producing areas. My 2nd great grandfather, great-grandparents, and grandparents all worked as Felt hatmakers and trimmers. In the mid to late 1800's my family in Hyde, worked at Brookside Felt Hat Manufactory, this factory later became Oldham and Fogg, which was bought by Vero and Everritt in 1955, this company was dissolved in 1989. I found this group as I searched for the history, I'm very interested in capturing some information about hats produced from 1900 to 1939 by my family. Searches led me to some of your forum's discussions on Oldham and Fogg catalogs and Hats. I'd love to learn what I can from you and see any information you may have.

Welcome to the lounge, Norman. Not much to be found I'm afraid. As far as I know Steve @Steve1857 is the one holding all the trumps in this game. He's got the only known example of an Oldham and Fogg hat and that fabulous catalogue of the firm. From what is written about the firm ("Denton and the archeology of the felt hatting industry" by Michael Nevell and others) Oldham's started out in 1865 as a manufacturer of machinery for the hatting industry and not as a hatter as such. And that's about all we know of them. In 1951 they were still selling hats under this name in the Netherlands.

 

[steur]

I usually tend to go for the smaller niche threads, but this is again one of those that are prone to raise debates regarding the origin, so I'll just put it here and I'll call it European

I had it in my watch list for a long time, I guess others too. Yet another black Homburg...the bow and a discount price made me pulling the trigger in the end.
What I couldn't guess is that it is a wool felt! Also it has the old style "rope" wind cord. I am thinking 30s, though that's just an assumption.

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Glad to see it found a good home, Panos. I have been following that hat for the longest time and assumed it was a Mossant (I believe it was sold with a Mossant hatbox). While the heraldry points towards England as its country of origin, I'm not entirely convinced. It could well be that it was French made, with the manufacturer using the English heraldry to make it appear English and perhaps a higher price.

 

[mayserwegener]

Glad to see it found a good home, Panos. I have been following that hat for the longest time and assumed it was a Mossant (I believe it was sold with a Mossant hatbox). While the heraldry points towards England as its country of origin, I'm not entirely convinced. It could well be that it was French made, with the manufacturer using the English heraldry to make it appear English and perhaps a higher price.

Also the sizing label is in CM and FP. Similar crests were used on German and Austrian / Czech made hats. It's marketing as you suggest.

I did see the size label on Steve's Oldham & Fogg Stiff Felt does have FP size plus CM and ES.

Here are some examples from my 2015 Czech Stamp find.

 

[Steve1857]

I usually tend to go for the smaller niche threads, but this is again one of those that are prone to raise debates regarding the origin, so I'll just put it here and I'll call it European

I had it in my watch list for a long time, I guess others too. Yet another black Homburg...the bow and a discount price made me pulling the trigger in the end.
What I couldn't guess is that it is a wool felt! Also it has the old style "rope" wind cord. I am thinking 30s, though that's just an assumption.

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Panos, I bow to Stefan's @steur and Steve's @mayserwegener superior knowledge and experience.
My Oldham & Fogg catalogue has made me too eager to find hats with the labels offered, or at least similar.
It's also nice to know that back in the day, English hats were something to emulate. As we say were I come from, "The best form of flattery is imitation."

 

[Steve1857]

Welcome to the lounge, Norman. Not much to be found I'm afraid. As far as I know Steve @Steve1857 is the one holding all the trumps in this game. He's got the only known example of an Oldham and Fogg hat and that fabulous catalogue of the firm. From what is written about the firm ("Denton and the archeology of the felt hatting industry" by Michael Nevell and others) Oldham's started out in 1865 as a manufacturer of machinery for the hatting industry and not as a hatter as such. And that's about all we know of them. In 1951 they were still selling hats under this name in the Netherlands.

View attachment 386179

Wow, Stefan, I wasn't aware that I'm the only one on the FL with an Oldham & Fogg hat. I wish my two trump cards revealed more about the company.

 

[Steve1857]

My family lived and worked in Hyde, Cheshire, England and next door Denton, Lancashire. I was raised in Hyde and still have family living in both towns. Two major hat-producing areas. My 2nd great grandfather, great-grandparents, and grandparents all worked as Felt hatmakers and trimmers. In the mid to late 1800's my family in Hyde, worked at Brookside Felt Hat Manufactory, this factory later became Oldham and Fogg, which was bought by Vero and Everritt in 1955, this company was dissolved in 1989. I found this group as I searched for the history, I'm very interested in capturing some information about hats produced from 1900 to 1939 by my family. Searches led me to some of your forum's discussions on Oldham and Fogg catalogs and Hats. I'd love to learn what I can from you and see any information you may have.

Welcome to the FL, Norman. Wonderful to have someone among us with a family connection to the great hat industry of Manchester.

Unfortunately, I can't give you anymore information than you already have.

If you don't already know it, I can recommend you get in touch with the museum The Hat Works in Stockport. If anyone has any information on Oldham & Fogg, it will be them.

Please keep us informed as to any new information you find.