Hipsters, tourists, and "artisinal" devil crabs...

[Benny Holiday]

I love Nigella Lawson.

Oh yeah . . . me too!

Growing up as a kid in Sydney in the 70s and a teenager in the 80s, you could go to a milk bar or cafe and order a simple, down-to-earth sandwich: it might be cheese and tomato, or salad, or chicken etc. The server would ask if you wanted salt or pepper, that's it. At the take away, you could get get a hamburger (with beetroot, that's an Australian burger, folks), or hamburger with the lot (egg), or a steak sandwich and hot chips, or fish and chips.

Then, sometime in the early 2000s I guess, even before all the annoying cooking shows started bombarding the airwaves, I noticed that when going to a cafe one was suddenly confronted by such monstrosities as sandwiches featuring such weird fillings as Moroccan lamb slices with organically-sourced goat's cheese, roasted truss tomatoes with watercress and Russian dressing on sourdough, or smashed avocado (what did it ever do to you???) with lime, dukkah (what?), sauteed green beans and, of course kale.

Come on, man, I just want a chicken sandwich, maybe a bit of tomato on it!

The latest craze here is burgers. Every second block has a fancy artisan burger joint on it: Killa Burger, Grill'd, and so on. And they're pretty tasty burgers, for sure, but it's just weird that they've popped up overnight, like mushrooms after a few days of continuous rain. Even McDonalds has its special range of fancy artisan burgers, Angus beef being the big word of late.

 

[Bamaboots]

After that was the 70s "fish and chips" craze, with Arthur Treachers, etc. Before that, seafood was all-you-can-eat clams at Howard Johnson's.


Sent directly from my mind to yours.

Wasn't much different here, Jim. We had an Arthur Treachers and when the Howard Johnsons closed on N Parkway in Huntsville, my first thought was, where will I ever find fried clams again?

 

[LizzieMaine]

The whole "Angus" thing is ridiculous. Angus is and has been for years the most common breed of beef cattle in the US -- all they've done is turn it into a "name brand" with the help of the Boys. An "Angus burger" in 2017 is no better or worse than any "hamburger" in 1967.

It's the same thing as slapping a "Hormone Free!" label on a package of store chicken. The use of hormones as an aid to plumping poultry has been banned in the US for almost sixty years. All the label is is a way of attracting the credulous yucks who get their health advice from checkout-line magazines and TV talk shows.

This type of marketing nonsense reminds me of those ads in the Sunday supplement for AMAZING BREAKTHRU! THIS DEVICE PLUGS INTO YOUR TV AND GIVES YOU FREE DIGITAL CHANNELS! YOU DON'T PAY FOR CABLE! PULLS TV RIGHT OUT OF THE AIR! Yes it does, because it's a simple, common UHF antenna of the sort you've been able to buy in any electronics store since 1954.

 

[GHT]

And I just have to know...How much mushy green stuff is out there?

Staple diet, mushy peas.

 

[tonyb]

Mom 'n' Pop operations often go under when Mom and/or Pop gets too old and tired to carry on. Or when he and/or she goes under him- and/or herself.

Hours are long. Money ain't great. Can't blame the kids for wanting different sorts of lives for themselves. And can't blame anyone else for not buying a business they could either replicate themselves or which wouldn't turn enough revenue to make it worth the trouble.

I feel about that much the way I feel about preserving old structures: I hope someone can make a go of it, but it ain't my money and my time on the line.

 

[Fading Fast]

Mom 'n' Pop operations often go under when Mom and/or Pop gets too old and tired to carry on. Or when he and/or she goes under him- and/or herself.

Hours are long. Money ain't great. Can't blame the kids for wanting different sorts of lives for themselves. And can't blame anyone else for not buying a business they could either replicate themselves or which wouldn't turn enough revenue to make it worth the trouble.

I feel about that much the way I feel about preserving old structures: I hope someone can make a go of it, but it ain't my money and my time on the line.

Agreed and, at least in NYC, another nail in the coffin is if the mom 'n' pop place owns the building or is renting. The old-school places that have survived all (at least based on my informal asking when I'm in then) own the buildings they are in as, if they don't, the recent rent spikes force them out when their leases are up. We've lost several very cool ones that way in the last few years.

I have a feeling that several of the ones that own their own buildings (I'm thinking of one bakery and one hamburger joint in particular) could close up shop and either sell the building (and invest the proceeds) or rent it out and make more money than the owners do running their businesses (and have a lot less hassle).

 

[tonyb]

Agreed and, at least in NYC, another nail in the coffin is if the mom 'n' pop place owns the building or is renting. The old-school places that have survived all (at least based on my informal asking when I'm in then) own the buildings they are in as, if they don't, the recent rent spikes force them out when their leases are up. We've lost several very cool ones that way in the last few years.

I have a feeling that several of the ones that own their own buildings (I'm thinking of one bakery and one hamburger joint in particular) could close up shop and either sell the building (and invest the proceeds) or rent it out and make more money than the owners do running their businesses (and have a lot less hassle).

I'm still learning the lay of the land here in greater Denver, but I can offer numerous examples of that very phenomenon in Seattle. Retail businesses -- sole proprietorships, in many cases -- that have been around for at least 50 years in spaces that are now worth many times what they were when the oldtimers opened the places. Motorcycle shops. Fishing tackle stores. Ramshackle plant nurseries. Men's clothiers.

Several years ago I chatted with the owner of a Western wear store. The not-young fellow spoke with an unmistakable New York accent. He had come West decades earlier to take a job with Boeing, but got into the cowboy drag business and had done okay with it. He had two stores -- one in the old downtown retail district in Renton, a suburb immediately south of Seattle; and one right alongside Interstate 5 in Tacoma. That business is now defunct, likely for one or more of the reasons we've already cited.

 

[scotrace]

I was just talking about something similar with a young friend last week. It's likely the overpriced chains and upscale joints are going to flounder pretty quickly. There's a whole generation with plenty of education and underemployed, with a lot of college debt, who can't afford to, and will not play along with, the Boys. From A&F to Applebees, they tend to look and say "nope, sorry." So they're seeking out more honest, cheap, local places to spend money. They'll spend money on experiences, not stuff, and won't pay $$$$ eating out for something they can make at home, for less money, and create an experience while doing so. They've grown up with the Food Network et al, and aren't afraid to move the adventure stuff to their own kitchens, while refusing to pay for it at a brick & mortar. The biggest splurge they'll allow is beer from the local micro.
So this is a changing scenario.

 

[LizzieMaine]

If that means the approaching extinction of the $15 toasted cheese sandwich, I'm all for it. And people accuse movie theatres of obscene markups.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Mom 'n' Pop operations often go under when Mom and/or Pop gets too old and tired to carry on. Or when he and/or she goes under him- and/or herself.

Hours are long. Money ain't great. Can't blame the kids for wanting different sorts of lives for themselves. And can't blame anyone else for not buying a business they could either replicate themselves or which wouldn't turn enough revenue to make it worth the trouble.

I feel about that much the way I feel about preserving old structures: I hope someone can make a go of it, but it ain't my money and my time on the line.

Mrs. Hawk is an accountant and works with many family businesses, partnerships, trusts, what have you, and she's commented before that the pattern seems to be that the third generation is where family businesses start to fade. The grandkids of "mom" and "pop" are most often the ones who lose interest in the family business. That's why it's surprising, and kind of nice, to see family restaurants and such that have been run by the family for 100+ years.

 

[Fading Fast]

If that means the approaching extinction of the $15 toasted cheese sandwich, I'm all for it. And people accuse movie theatres of obscene markups.

You've educated me to the movie theater model and why the food and drinks are so expensive - and it makes sense, but in the end, few are going to work through the underlying market dynamics and say, "oh, yeah, that's fair;" what they are going to say is "why does the same bottle of water that costs $1 outside the movie theater costs $4.50 in here?" It's a tough sell to the public despite being right.

But as you said, at least it ain't a $15 grill cheese sandwich. And to be fair, not all this "artisanal" food is crazy priced. There's a new-style grill cheese truck that parks near us periodically and for ~13 bucks total my girlfriend and I get two different grill cheeses (the foo-foo one with Granny Smith apples and cheddar cheese is insanely good) for lunch and usually have a half sandwich left over for later. Not cheap, but not crazy in NYC.

 

[Tiki Tom]

I’m enjoying this thread very much. When Mrs Tiki and I were first starting out, we lived in an apartment furnished with empty moving boxes and folding chairs. Our idea of a hot date was to buy an issue of “Gourmet Magazine” (I think they have since gone out of business) and spend Saturday night following new recipes and cooking up a storm from scratch in our small kitchen, over a bottle of (then) cheap California wine. We learned to cook that way, also learned the art of talking to each other. Cooking together is still one of our favorite things (clean as you go! Clean as you go!) One of the joys of living in Austria is the seasonal foods; Starting with baerlauch (Ramson/wood garlic) in March and progressing through the year to Roast Goose in November and then Christmas goodies. Plums are on offer right now. I’m looking forward to mushroom season and wild game season in the fall! It used to be that, in the winter, grocery stores had not much beyond root vegetables, shrunken apples and ---maybe--- oranges flown in from Israel or Morocco. That is changing now and you are starting to see bigger chain stores complete with strawberries flown in from New Zealand in February, organic quinoa, and that sort of thing. Although I see the “up” side of the changes, I also admit that I’m a bit sceptical at the same time.

As for the original topic of this thread, I’m not sure exactly what signifies when a place has become insufferably artisanal/up-scale (“Sheeky-meeky” auf Deutsch), but I can usually tell just by looking at the clientele. You are what you eat, and visa-versa.

 

[MisterCairo]

Except you'll be hard pressed to find any working-class person around here who can afford to pay $20 for a lobster roll, a food that was originally created to make use of the part of the lobster that was considered waste. We the locals knew that. Foodieism turned something that was originally in the league of a hot dog into something targeting the goormay crowd, and in doing so drove out most of the actual mom-and-pop places that actually served the version that locals could afford. Even the few that have survived -- I'm looking at you, Red's Eats in Wiscasset -- have been turned into overpriced tourist traps by the hype.

Sitting at some roadside joint eating a lobster roll out of a red-and-white checkered paper basket while listening to the ballgame on your car radio used to be a common Sunday afternoon thing. It is no longer that. The only lobster-roll eaters now are Joe Madrasshorts and Sally Boatshoe from Connecticut.

In Atlantic Canada, eating lobster, particularly in kids' school lunches, was an indication of poverty at one point.

Now it is considered haute cuisine, however prepared.

 

[MisterCairo]

I must remember to ask the waiter not to put any cilantro in my guacamole next time we eat out.

I HATE cilantro. It tastes like soap to me, and I have learned that people like me actually have a chemical reaction to it.

 

[LizzieMaine]

As for the original topic of this thread, I’m not sure exactly what signifies when a place has become insufferably artisanal/up-scale (“Sheeky-meeky” auf Deutsch), but I can usually tell just by looking at the clientele. You are what you eat, and visa-versa.

If you're surrounded by insufferably skinny people in black turtlenecks and tiny rectangular glasses who laugh and toss their hair in an exceedingly studied manner, and the food comes to the table looking like it was plated by a barefoot middle-school art teacher, then the pinnacle of sheeky-meeky has been achieved.

For me, all I have to do is look at the menu posted in an understated frame in the doorway. If the prices are expressed simply as a whole number, with no decimal places and no dollar sign, I keep walking.

 

[Fading Fast]

If you're surrounded by insufferably skinny people in black turtlenecks and tiny rectangular glasses who laugh and toss their hair in an exceedingly studied manner, and the food comes to the table looking like it was plated by a barefoot middle-school art teacher, then the pinnacle of sheeky-meeky has been achieved.

For me, all I have to do is look at the menu posted in an understated frame in the doorway. If the prices are expressed simply as a whole number, with no decimal places and no dollar sign, I keep walking.

It's been awhile since I've even seen the black-turtleneck types you note (and NYC was chockablock with them for years) - where have they gone? Or, more accurately, what affected uniform are they now wearing as all the fancy / hip / artisanal places in NYC today are frequented either by Hipster variants or narrow-fitting-and-short-legged-suit wearers with flamboyant pocket squares and tie clips?

My quick-and-dirty way to get a feel for a place is how is the food "plated." If it looks like something that could be found in the Museum of Modern Art - I move on.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The black-turtleneckers are all here, striking poses in art galleries.

 

[Fading Fast]

The black-turtleneckers are all here, striking poses in art galleries.

If the au courant road leads north, then next you'll see a lot of young skinny (and wish they were skinny) guys in tight fitting suits, with flood pants, pocket squares and walnut-colored dress shoes coming your way. Have fun with that.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Someone needs to tell them that the Tenth Doctor has long since regenerated.

 

[Tiki Tom]

You guys are cracking me up!
It takes all kinds to make a world. But don't forget the guys with big beards and Pendleton shirts who live in the heart of megalopolis (I've heard them called lumbersexuals) who are accompanied by straight-haired waifs in peasant skirts and all their food has to be gluten free. I hadn't ever even heard of gluten free until about ten years ago, and now you can't swing a cat without hitting a friend who can't eat gluten.