Hi everyone,
Be it morning or evening where you live I hope you have a terrific weekend planned - the sun is shining without a cloud in the sky here in Toronto, it's absolutely glorious today. Wishing you all the same.
I'm looking for the forum's collective thoughts on quality and what builds the fervour around certain manufacturers and products.
As an example, I'm just down the street from Himel Bros, and while I've never experienced their jackets firsthand, I've heard lots of talk that Dave and his guys make the best jackets in the world. I've also heard a lot of talk that he uses cotton thread, and that the mystique around him is a bit hyped.
Again, I can't say one way or the other and I'm not championing or denigrating Dave or the jackets in any way, but I'm always dubious of too much attention being paid to a particular thing - it always makes me feel like the adage, "nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd," is in play.
And this would apply to any manufacturer or even product.
Same holds true for Japanese manufacturers - there's lots of discussion on the forum for and against. But who's to really say, and how do we measure? What's the qualitative means by which we gauge what manufacturer is "the best?" I would argue that even more important than the quality of the hide, the drape of a garment - in this case a jacket - is the most important qualifier.
To that end, I think that Thedi could be looked at as one of the top manufacturers because of his understanding of how the jacket is ideally supposed to fit, but even that's subjective because every body type is different and people like to wear things in a way that suits them, regardless of whether or not it's how the manufacturer imagined the fit on an inanimate dress-form.
So when we talk about a manufacturer being top tier - which is again subjective - what are we looking at? Is the hype around a certain manufacturer, (or in the case of RMC, Rainbow Country, Freewheelers a whole class of Japanese manufacturers) a case of the emperor's new clothes in that people are just repeating things they've heard without stopping to really looking into what the fuss is all about?
Is Shinki really that much better than Italian or South American horsehide? And if it is, why? And how many people have done the research to actually understand the process and offer an objective measure of worth? So many people read, "Shinki" and immediately tout that as a selling point, but is it justified?
Conversely, a Japanese brand like Y'2 gets little love on the forum, and yet in my opinion they make a great product - I think the hides they use are quite nice, the stitching is neat, the patterns are cool, and they create a variety of pieces. Iron Heart and Addict are brands that I've read about but have no experience with, but are they considered with the same respect that Rainbow Country gets? Vanson and Schott make great products but they can't achieve the prices that other manufacturers charge - is that fair?
How can Himel charge $2,650 USD for a D-pocket or a Cafe Racer, while Vanson, Langlitz, and even Lewis Leathers are almost $1,000 USD less for a similar jacket. I don't believe Lewis makes a D-pocket but is the quality of Himel's hides and craftsmanship worth exponentially more, and Vanson's quality worth exponentially less?
Are we all in essence market-makers because we buy into the hype and hence buy the products?
Again, no disrespect to Himel or anyone who owns and enjoys his jackets, I'm genuinely just curious how some manufacturers rise to the top of the economic food chain while others producing arguably similar - or in some cases superior products - languish at a price point below and are unable to step into the next tier.
Looking for your thoughts, thank you all. Enjoy the weekend.
CG
Be it morning or evening where you live I hope you have a terrific weekend planned - the sun is shining without a cloud in the sky here in Toronto, it's absolutely glorious today. Wishing you all the same.
I'm looking for the forum's collective thoughts on quality and what builds the fervour around certain manufacturers and products.
As an example, I'm just down the street from Himel Bros, and while I've never experienced their jackets firsthand, I've heard lots of talk that Dave and his guys make the best jackets in the world. I've also heard a lot of talk that he uses cotton thread, and that the mystique around him is a bit hyped.
Again, I can't say one way or the other and I'm not championing or denigrating Dave or the jackets in any way, but I'm always dubious of too much attention being paid to a particular thing - it always makes me feel like the adage, "nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd," is in play.
And this would apply to any manufacturer or even product.
Same holds true for Japanese manufacturers - there's lots of discussion on the forum for and against. But who's to really say, and how do we measure? What's the qualitative means by which we gauge what manufacturer is "the best?" I would argue that even more important than the quality of the hide, the drape of a garment - in this case a jacket - is the most important qualifier.
To that end, I think that Thedi could be looked at as one of the top manufacturers because of his understanding of how the jacket is ideally supposed to fit, but even that's subjective because every body type is different and people like to wear things in a way that suits them, regardless of whether or not it's how the manufacturer imagined the fit on an inanimate dress-form.
So when we talk about a manufacturer being top tier - which is again subjective - what are we looking at? Is the hype around a certain manufacturer, (or in the case of RMC, Rainbow Country, Freewheelers a whole class of Japanese manufacturers) a case of the emperor's new clothes in that people are just repeating things they've heard without stopping to really looking into what the fuss is all about?
Is Shinki really that much better than Italian or South American horsehide? And if it is, why? And how many people have done the research to actually understand the process and offer an objective measure of worth? So many people read, "Shinki" and immediately tout that as a selling point, but is it justified?
Conversely, a Japanese brand like Y'2 gets little love on the forum, and yet in my opinion they make a great product - I think the hides they use are quite nice, the stitching is neat, the patterns are cool, and they create a variety of pieces. Iron Heart and Addict are brands that I've read about but have no experience with, but are they considered with the same respect that Rainbow Country gets? Vanson and Schott make great products but they can't achieve the prices that other manufacturers charge - is that fair?
How can Himel charge $2,650 USD for a D-pocket or a Cafe Racer, while Vanson, Langlitz, and even Lewis Leathers are almost $1,000 USD less for a similar jacket. I don't believe Lewis makes a D-pocket but is the quality of Himel's hides and craftsmanship worth exponentially more, and Vanson's quality worth exponentially less?
Are we all in essence market-makers because we buy into the hype and hence buy the products?
Again, no disrespect to Himel or anyone who owns and enjoys his jackets, I'm genuinely just curious how some manufacturers rise to the top of the economic food chain while others producing arguably similar - or in some cases superior products - languish at a price point below and are unable to step into the next tier.
Looking for your thoughts, thank you all. Enjoy the weekend.
CG