Here's to you Root!!

[Wild Root]

Well, not to beat a dead horse, but, wasn’t I asked what I thought it should be named? I really don’t care but, the thread’s name has my name all over it.

Name it what ever you like Art, fact is I’d be lucky to even be able to afford one. I’m cheap; I can only afford vintage goods.

=WR=

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Well, not to beat a dead horse, but, wasn’t I asked what I thought it should be named?

You have a point, Root. Art did ask you -- and all of us, in fact -- "think the name Jazzman fits?" Whether it does or not is a matter of opinion; and as you have said, our opinions were solicited. Again, my solution (or is it a resolution?) is to name my own hat.

.

 

[Craig Robertson]

A quick search for "Cavanagh" got me these threads. Brad Bowers is our resident expert on the Cavanagh Edge, if I recall correctly.

Thanks, Zohar...for the the "Cavangh Edge" thread and info. And thanks Brad for digging it up. It makes me appreciate my "Mode Edge" Stetson even more.

...but, for new, custom hats, I guess I should stick to a bound brim edge.

 

[BellyTank]

Cavanaugh/Jazz

Marc, no can do on the Cav edge...not possible for me or anyone else. That has to be done during the felting process.
Root, you must have a different vision of what "Jazzmen" wore back then. My minds eye sees something different.

My vintage "Angora" model Borsdlino has a self-felted-welt-bead brim edge, is that basically a "Cavanaugh Edge"..?

And Jazz as in "Jazz Suits" a la '20s..?

B
T

 

[feltfan]

The Jazzman in my closet

Boy am I glad to see this thread. I was just getting ready
to post about my mystery hat. It's still a bit mysterious, but
this thread gives it a context. This hat has been sitting in
my closet for an embarrassingly long time now, waiting to
be appreciated. I bought it on our favorite auction site,
where it was misrepresented as a 7 5/8 Cavanagh. Well
it turned out to be a 7 3/8 Crofut and Knapp with a
Cavanagh Edge. But was it a homburg? A fedora? I just
liked the bow.

So, as all owners of big heads are apt to do, I put it on
the rack. It stretched out easily to fit my bean, with no
ill effects except some slight stretching to the bow (which
could be fixed easily if I weren't such a disaster with needle
and thread). It's soft and comfortable. But when/where to wear it?

Here's the hat:

Here's a side view. I have thrown in my Toast-o-lator toaster
to thrill Wildroot (and my hideous vintage tacking "hat iron"):

A better side view:

Here is the logo in the liner:

Here are the Cavanagh Edge and C&K logos embossed in the liner:

Here it is on the ol' bean:

And one more:

Apologies to anyone who is annoyed with the upload time for this
message.

Anyway, the crown is about the same measurement as Art's
"Jazzman". The brim, when flattened, is quite wide, around 2 3/4",
but it does not like to be flattened, and is effectively 2+" with a curl.
It doesn't seem to like or look good with a pinch. I defer to the felt.

 

[feltfan]

Cavanagh and Crofut & Knapp

BTW, I have read in a couple of places that John Cavanagh
started his career at Crofut and Knapp. Here is an oddity
I came across recently:

http://blog.villagehatshop.com/2006/01/the_cav_edge.html

 

[Wild Root]

THAT HAT IS RARE!!! Oh, man, you hang on to that baby!!! Super fine hat my friend! And an even more beautiful toaster!!! I just saw a Toast-O-Lator in NOS condition with the original box sell for $510.00 on ebay!

Any way, that hat is very interesting and I'm so glad you posted photos of it!

=WR=

 

[Brad Bowers]

Fascinating hat, feltfan! A Cavanagh Edge on a Homburg, who would have guessed? Thanks for sharing!

Brad

 

[feltfan]

Glad you guys are enjoying the hat. I must say I feel guilty
to have stretched it... There are some hats ahead of this
one in line, but hopefully some day I can get Art to fix
it up a bit. Just adjust the bow etc.

As for the Toast-o-lator, I wanted one for years but
couldn't get myself to fork over the big bucks. I finally
found this one at the end of a deco sale and paid $75 cash.
I did test it and it does work. But it is temperamental. Turns
out that most all Toast-o-lators are unreliable- the drive
train is very strangely designed. I have a 40s Toastmaster
right next to it for reliability.

And Brad, it's not exactly a homburg, right? It's sort of
a proto-homburg, if you will. I would guess it predates the
term. But the curve of the brim isn't exactly a homburg and
it's not a stiff hat. More comfortable than a homburg, too
(and I can't pull off a traditional homburg as well as you can!).
I guess you could say it differs from what we think of as a
homburg in the same way that the Jazzman or 'Root's Stetson
differ from the classic fedora. It's of that early period.

BTW, it's not clear from the photos, but the finish is slightly
furry. Not as furry as 'Root's Stetson, but not smooth like
more traditional felt. There's a visible spiral to the fur finish
you can almost see in the first shot.

 

[tonyb]

Love the lid, feltfan, and the new avatar. Couldn't help but notice the interior trim in your crib. I'm no architectural historian, but I'm thinking 1920s. Izzat about right? How long you been hanging there?

 

[Bogie1943]

I would kill for one of your sweet creations Art! That hat is amazing, I love the old tall stove pipe crowns, How can I get one of those????

 

[Art Fawcett]

Thanks Josh, just PM me & we'll go from there.

 

[Brad Bowers]

And Brad, it's not exactly a homburg, right? It's sort of
a proto-homburg, if you will. I would guess it predates the
term. But the curve of the brim isn't exactly a homburg and
it's not a stiff hat. More comfortable than a homburg, too
(and I can't pull off a traditional homburg as well as you can!).
I guess you could say it differs from what we think of as a
homburg in the same way that the Jazzman or 'Root's Stetson
differ from the classic fedora. It's of that early period.

Sorry to hijack for the moment this thread about Art's wonderful new hat - oh how I want one like it!

The hat looks great on you, feltfan!

I guess I tend to think of any hat that has a shackle curl and center dent as a Homburg, but it may not be technically correct. I don't know when the term came into usage, but I know the style has been around since the 19th Century.

I can't see the Cavanagh logo on the sweat very well - is there a patent date or number associated with it? I'd like to see an Cavanagh Edge from his earlier 1913 patent, but I'm guessing this one is after 1931. I wonder if the curl was original from the factory, or if someone had it applied later. It almost looks like a lot more curl than in the ad that jamespowers posted. A nice mystery, though.

Art, I can't tell from my monitor if the ribbon is brown, rust, or perhaps maroon. I know, I need a new monitor. It looks great, whatever color it is!:eusa_clap

Brad

 

[Art Fawcett]

Thanks Brad, the color is "drab" brown with more than a hint of green. The ribbon is actual '30's vintage.

 

[feltfan]

I can't see the Cavanagh logo on the sweat very well - is there a patent date or number associated with it? I'd like to see an Cavanagh Edge from his earlier 1913 patent, but I'm guessing this one is after 1931. I wonder if the curl was original from the factory, or if someone had it applied later. It almost looks like a lot more curl than in the ad that jamespowers posted. A nice mystery, though.

The embossed message on the leather sweatband says:

"Permanently Styled By The Cavanagh Edge Process"
with a "JC" logo in the center (presumably "John Cavanagh").
Then at the bottom:
"Patented FEBY 25, 1913".

It certainly is a lot more curl than the ad jamespowers posted.
I fear a bit of the curl is from my amateur stretching. Note that
it's not present when the hat is off my head.

And I didn't want to hijack this thread either. I was just
hoping to add to the efforts to put the Jazzman in historical
context.

 

[feltfan]

Love the lid, feltfan, and the new avatar. Couldn't help but notice the interior trim in your crib. I'm no architectural historian, but I'm thinking 1920s. Izzat about right? How long you been hanging there?

Hm, I guess this is way off topic, but what the hey.

Interesting that you say 1920s. That's what I thought at
first, too, when I bought the place in 1999. But in fact it's
unusual mouldings in a 1908 home. I had to remove gas light
pipes from the ceilings... There's still a "spare" bit of unpainted
moulding in the basement. I don't have the time in this life
to strip it all back to original varnish.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Thanks Brad, the color is "drab" brown with more than a hint of green. The ribbon is actual '30's vintage.

Thanks for clarifying the color, Art. I bet it's hard to find the 27 ligne, whether it's vintage or modern! I just love the wide ribbons on hats, 22 ligne or greater. So formal and classy.

Brad