Help with WWII French Uniforms Please?

[contentmentfarm]

Hi Gents,

I have a couple of WWII French uniforms, one with a label from a tailor in Dijon, and was hoping that some of you might be able to tell me a little about them. I'm not able to find any resources for French uniforms online and I know you guys know your stuff.

Here are general photos of the first one. If you want to see close ups of any details just let me know.

 

[contentmentfarm]

And, uniform #2. Both belonged to the same man who joined the French forces in 1944.

TIA!

 

[DavidVillaJr]

I'm sorry I don't know anything about your uniforms, but I absolutely LOVE the crazy pants pockets on the first uniform, and the jacket pockets on the second.

Lovely stuff...

dv

 

[DutchIndo]

They are patterned after the British Battle Dress, the French Labels confuse me though. I THINK not sure though that they may be Post War. I know the Dutch and the Belgians also copied that pattern post war. I know our English friends would know. On the pockets (trousers) the pleated one is a bandage pocket, one would put a field dressing in it.

 

[contentmentfarm]

Thanks for the replies David and Dutch.

Here is what I know about the person who the uniforms belonged to. His name was William C. Bullitt. He served in the US diplomatic service as ambassador to the Soviet Union 1933 - 36 (appointed by FDR) and to France from 36 - 40. When he left public service in 1943 he tried unsuccessfully to enlist in the US Army and then went on to join the French Free forces under de Gaulle in May of 44. Bullitt landed in southern France with Free French forces under General de Lattre de Tassigny in August 1944. He remained with that unit until the end of the war. The French awarded Bullitt the Croix de Guerre with palm and the Legion of Honor.

I purchased these uniforms and other men's clothing from the Bullitt summer home in western MA. The family history is quite fascinating and I've enjoyed reading about them online but I'm out of my element with these uniforms though pretty sure of the origins. Anyway, they are a learning opportunity for me, like finding out that the pleated pocket was for a field dressing. So, anyone else want to add to my education?

 

[Story]

Your Corporal's jacket looks alot like this Legion officer's:
http://legionetranger.org/uniform.html
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-uniforms/french-fl.htm
Note the lapels and breast pocket covers.

 

[KilroyCD]

Unfortunately I know very little about French uniforms, but the four-pocket tunic (uniform #2) would probably have been worn with a belt. I don't see any signs of belt keepers, so it likely wouldn't have been self-belted. I'm inclined to think it would have been worn with something like a Sam Browne or a garrison belt. Normally that little slit pocket (between the upper and lower pockets on the tunic's right side) would be hidden from view under the belt.

 

[Cobden]

The top uniform is a private purchase Brit BD variant, the second is pretty much Brit officers service dress or French officers SD; they're very similar (the British had pointed cuff decoration, French have barrel. This has neither). Rank was usually worn on the lower sleeve except in the legion, who wore it on blue shoulder boards. I'd guess this is an economy variant of French SD for Legionaires. The rank is on the eppaullettes and signifies a Major- I have no idea about the chevrons

 

[Alan Eardley]

I'm sorry I don't know anything about your uniforms, but I absolutely LOVE the crazy pants pockets on the first uniform, and the jacket pockets on the second.

Lovely stuff...

dv

They are the same as the British battledress trousers - the lower pocket is the map pocket, the upper one the first field dressing FFD) pocket, which usually has a button but never a flap. Trousers of this type are commonly available (often unissued) and cheap in the postwar 49 pattern.

Alan

 

[Alan Eardley]

Unfortunately I know very little about French uniforms, but the four-pocket tunic (uniform #2) would probably have been worn with a belt. I don't see any signs of belt keepers, so it likely wouldn't have been self-belted. I'm inclined to think it would have been worn with something like a Sam Browne or a garrison belt. Normally that little slit pocket (between the upper and lower pockets on the tunic's right side) would be hidden from view under the belt.

Free French Army officers wore a black leather belt without cross straps (i.e. not a 'Sam Browne').

Alan

 

[Alan Eardley]

The top uniform is a private purchase Brit BD variant, the second is pretty much Brit officers service dress or French officers SD; they're very similar (the British had pointed cuff decoration, French have barrel. This has neither). Rank was usually worn on the lower sleeve except in the legion, who wore it on blue shoulder boards. I'd guess this is an economy variant of French SD for Legionaires. The rank is on the eppaullettes and signifies a Major- I have no idea about the chevrons

I agree. I guess the lack of British or French cuff is an Americanism? I don't know about the chevrons, either. Could this be an earned rank in the American forces being carried over to FF service?

Interesting items.

BTW, Cobden, I have seen B&W pictured of FF soldiers in Africa wearing what appears to be a KD version of 44 pattern uniform (although the leggings could, of course be American which are the same pattern). Martin Brayley mentions the manufacture of KD 44 pattern kit (with and some photos) in KD & JG. You never see photos of British forces with KD 44 pattern kit. Did the FF use it, do you know?

Alan

 

[contentmentfarm]

See, I knew this was the right place to ask questions. Being a total novice I need a little translation though. KD & JG? and I'm not sure what a 49 pattern or 44 pattern actually means.

If I were to buy one book about uniforms to learn about the general terms and details which one would you guys recommend? You know, like if you were stranded on a desert island which book would you want to have with you?

 

[Zemke Fan]

I have had good luck...

With the Men-At-Arms series of books...

This one seems a likely candidate for your research:

The French Army 1939-45 (1) : The Army of 1939-40 & Vichy France (Men-At-Arms Series, 315)

Available on Amazon.

 

[BellyTank]

Your uniforms are post war-
The first one is early '50s at the earliest- as has been said, it is a copy of post-war British (British '49 pattern was used through the '70s).
The others, I'm not sure about, specific to decade but post-war.


B
T

 

[DeaconKC]

If you drop in over at www.surplusrifleforum.com go to the French Rifle section and pm one of the mods, lebel or kelt. They are great guys and very knowledgeable.

 

[KilroyCD]

Free French Army officers wore a black leather belt without cross straps (i.e. not a 'Sam Browne').

Alan

That's the "Garrison Belt" I referred to.

 

[DutchIndo]

Those Osprey books are great !! I have some of the French Foreign Legion ones. I am particulary interested in the Indo-China / Algerian conflict. The French used gear from all countries at that time. It is probably the easiest to re-enact in as there was no standardized gear.

 

[Alan Eardley]

With the Men-At-Arms series of books...

This one seems a likely candidate for your research:

The French Army 1939-45 (1) : The Army of 1939-40 & Vichy France (Men-At-Arms Series, 315)

Available on Amazon.

The guy on the left has the keen leather jacket French tankers wore.

Alan

 

[Alan Eardley]

See, I knew this was the right place to ask questions. Being a total novice I need a little translation though. KD & JG? and I'm not sure what a 49 pattern or 44 pattern actually means.

If I were to buy one book about uniforms to learn about the general terms and details which one would you guys recommend? You know, like if you were stranded on a desert island which book would you want to have with you?

Sweeping generalisation:-
Khaki Drill - British Empire tropical material until 1944.
Jungle Green - likewise after 1944

1944 Pattern - JG tropical clothing and load-carrying equipment issued in that year and generally worn until replaced by DPM in the seventies and until the nineties by Ghurka units.
1949 Pattern - British temperate and cold battledress issued in that year, replaced as combat gear with 1960 pattern but still worn for some purposes in the seventies.

The Osprey series are good, but specialise. For British and Empire WW2 gear Ingram and Brayley (Khaki Drill and Jungle Green) and The uniforms of the British Tommy in WW2 (or something like that) are good.

Alan

 

[Zemke Fan]

BT....

Your uniforms are post war-
The first one is early '50s at the earliest- as has been said, it is a copy of post-war British (British '49 pattern was used through the '70s).
The others, I'm not sure about, specific to decade but post-war. -- BT

How DO you know all this stuff, man? You are THE source! (Or do you just make it all up? )