Help choosing between Aero Board Racer & Cafe Racer

[Superfluous]

Sorry, but for me a jacket of this quality and supposed durability should not weigh less than 4 lbs, especially if it is a size 42!! That just seems more like a fashion jacket than a motorcycle jacket

Fully agreed. I'm sure Vicenza is a nice hide but at such a weight difference, I think I'll pass. If I'm dropping that much money on a leather jacket, least I want of it is to be heavier than anything that can be found at the mall.

I personally don't feel comfortable wearing a lightweight jacket, on and off the bike.

Vincenza HH is a MID-weight leather – it is NOT light-weight. To the contrary, Vicenza is MUCH heavier, more robust and durable than any fashion jacket found at the mall. There is NO comparison – its not even close. I understand your desire for the heaviest suit of armor available, but that does not mean that all other leathers are essentially light-weight, flimsy mall/fashion jackets. There are middle ground, MID-weight hides that balance wearability with durability. A Vicenza jacket is incredibly sturdy and will last a lifetime. My wife and several of my friends think my Shinki jackets are obscenely heavy and comment that they would never wear something so uncomfortable. Yet, some here view Shinki and Vicenza exactly the opposite. The variance of opinions never ceases to amaze me.

Ironically, the majority of the vintage jackets that we wear reproductions of were made from lighter-weight hides. The repro manufacturers generally use heavier leathers than the original jackets they are reproducing. Vicenza is heavier than most repro jackets.

I personally find Horween FQHH far too thick, heavy and uncomfortable. On the other hand, many vintage leathers are too thin. Vicenza, Shinki and certain other hides fill the gap by providing a mid-weight, robust, durable leather that is also wearable.

Vicenza is heavy but not to heavy, thick but not too thick. One thing to note is, I don't recall anyone who actually has a Vicenza jacket complained it wasn't a substantial enough leather......but quite a few who have never worn one seem to have strong opinions on it

So true.

Funny you say that, I've had a hairdresser absolutely freak out at how heavy my DD Shinki Buco was

Similar experiences.

The main reason I like and order Aero jackets is due to the fact that they offer something few others can provide. One being their signature CXL FQHH or 4oz CXL Steerhide. If I wanted a hide similar to the Vicenza I could order a jacket from at least 3 or 4 jacket producers who could get a similar hide.

Respectfully, you are mistake. Horween HH is MUCH more common and available as compared to Vicenza HH. Horween is an institutional leather manufacturer that dwarfs the Italian and Japanese tanneries. Anyone can buy Horween hides.

it would be like me wearing my Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Chronograph Kasparov LE Dubai boutique edition in platinum and someone looking at it and making a similar comment as someone else wearing a Citizen Ecodrive.

Your comparison could not be more inapposite (not to mention insulting). In fact, one could argue the exact opposite more persuasively, although I would also disagree. A Citizen Ecodrive costs less than one percent of the cost of your AP. In contrast, Vicenza HH is more expensive than Horween HH. Citizen is an institutional watch manufacturer and their products are available in any mall. Likewise, Horween is an institutional leather manufacturer and their hides are readily available in industry circles. In contrast, Vicenza is much less common and available. Thus, a much better argument can be made that Vicenza is more akin to AP and Horween more similar to Citizen, although I would disagree because both Horween and Vicenza are outstanding leather manufacturers and both are comparable to AP as opposed to Citizen.

Have you ever actually handled a jacket made from Vicenza HH?

No need to explain or justify wanting a super heavy thick jacket, if that's what you want, that's what you want. No problem disagreeing with me, they are just my opinions.

^ This

Ps: I do not own any Vicenza jackets (I previously owed two, but sold both).

I also collect watches and cars

BTW @holdemchamp1225 you have a fantastic watch collection. Many of us on the forum also collect things other than jackets, including watches, cars, motorcycles, firearms, etc. Part of the common illness we all share.

In my case I also collect watches and would collect cars too if I had a place to store them.

Guilty as charged. My current whip de jour was recently featured on the cover of a magazine:

Meanwhile, I am a semi-recovered watch collector. My prior stable of approximately 20+ pieces is down to 5, and I sold most of my prime pieces. A few of the gone but not forgotten:

HC, I noticed that you favor APs and JLCs. I wore these two yesterday and today:

I am currently looking to buy an AP Pride of Indonesia.

 

[nick123]

I've had both a Cafe Racer (with horizontally-oriented chest pockets-tumbled brown FQHH) and a navy Vicenza Board Racer. I think the CR was a size 38 and the BR a size 42. Protein's measurements seem to be a good reference point.

As far as preference, I think the BR is a better design aesthetically. I was a bit underwhelmed by the regular CR. Only wore it once or twice in front of the mirror before sending it down the river. As far as a better leather, I think the Vicenza is a more easy going wear experience. Both are phenomenal. You can't go wrong with an Aero, but I feel the BR has a bit more of a "flare" to it and just looks slightly sleeker. Flip a coin honestly!

 

[holdemchamp1225]

Vincenza HH is a MID-weight leather – it is NOT light-weight. To the contrary, Vicenza is MUCH heavier, more robust and durable than any fashion jacket found at the mall. There is NO comparison – its not even close. I understand your desire for the heaviest suit of armor available, but that does not mean that all other leathers are essentially light-weight, flimsy mall/fashion jackets. There are middle ground, MID-weight hides that balance wearability with durability. A Vicenza jacket is incredibly sturdy and will last a lifetime. My wife and several of my friends think my Shinki jackets are obscenely heavy and comment that they would never wear something so uncomfortable. Yet, some here view Shinki and Vicenza exactly the opposite. The variance of opinions never ceases to amaze me.

Ironically, the majority of the vintage jackets that we wear reproductions of were made from lighter-weight hides. The repro manufacturers generally use heavier leathers than the original jackets they are reproducing. Vicenza is heavier than most repro jackets.

I personally find Horween FQHH far too thick, heavy and uncomfortable. On the other hand, many vintage leathers are too thin. Vicenza, Shinki and certain other hides fill the gap by providing a mid-weight, robust, durable leather that is also wearable.



So true.



Similar experiences.



Respectfully, you are mistake. Horween HH is MUCH more common and available as compared to Vicenza HH. Horween is an institutional leather manufacturer that dwarfs the Italian and Japanese tanneries. Anyone can buy Horween hides.



Your comparison could not be more inapposite (not to mention insulting). In fact, one could argue the exact opposite more persuasively, although I would also disagree. A Citizen Ecodrive costs less than one percent of the cost of your AP. In contrast, Vicenza HH is more expensive than Horween HH. Citizen is an institutional watch manufacturer and their products are available in any mall. Likewise, Horween is an institutional leather manufacturer and their hides are readily available in industry circles. In contrast, Vicenza is much less common and available. Thus, a much better argument can be made that Vicenza is more akin to AP and Horween more similar to Citizen, although I would disagree because both Horween and Vicenza are outstanding leather manufacturers and both are comparable to AP as opposed to Citizen.

Have you ever actually handled a jacket made from Vicenza HH?



^ This

Ps: I do not own any Vicenza jackets (I previously owed two, but sold both).




Guilty as charged. My current whip de jour was recently featured on the cover of a magazine:

Meanwhile, I am a semi-recovered watch collector. My prior stable of approximately 20+ pieces is down to 5, and I sold most of my prime pieces. A few of the gone but not forgotten:

HC, I noticed that you favor APs and JLCs. I wore these two yesterday and today:

I am currently looking to buy an AP Pride of Indonesia.

Craig, is that you ?? I ask because those photos you showed of these watches belongs to someone I know from LA.

If it is, this is Bruce aka "holdemchamp1225" from TZ. Small world seeing you here LOL. Having spoken to you since 2009 or 2010 I believe.

I was just trying to make a point but I understand your side as well. I just think that Horween makes a great leather and product as they are the leather of choice for most high-end shoes, belts, sacs, etc....for men.

I have handled Vicenza before as I know someone with a Vicenza HB but again I just prefer a heavier weight jacket. Just my opinion really but if I wanted to wear a lighter weight jacket I would probably choose any of the 3 Eastman A2s I have.

BTW, nice Trulli and NSA Incursion. I actually picked up an Incursion last year from another collector from Purist. I haven't seen you around TZ or any other watch forum lately so now it makes sense since you stepped away from collecting.

I am still in it, fortunately and unfortunately LOL. Trying to slim down the collection but it seems I am going the opposite direction as now I currently have 44.

Went on a little bit of a buying spree within the past fews months as I added a PP 5960/1a, 5970R, 5980/1a, and a few other pieces.

I actually sold an Amvox DBS 2 Transponder in 18krg recently on TZ and currently have an AP Rue Saint Honore edition for sale or trade at the moment LOL.

I might have seen a Pride of Indonesia edition so contact me.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

I've had both a Cafe Racer (with horizontally-oriented chest pockets-tumbled brown FQHH) and a navy Vicenza Board Racer. I think the CR was a size 38 and the BR a size 42. Protein's measurements seem to be a good reference point.

As far as preference, I think the BR is a better design aesthetically. I was a bit underwhelmed by the regular CR. Only wore it once or twice in front of the mirror before sending it down the river. As far as a better leather, I think the Vicenza is a more easy going wear experience. Both are phenomenal. You can't go wrong with an Aero, but I feel the BR has a bit more of a "flare" to it and just looks slightly sleeker. Flip a coin honestly!

Thanks for the info and advice. I really like how my 36 CR fits but will most likely custom order a BR as well since I do like the looks and the fact that it is cut slimmer throughout the body. Will give it a try and see how it works out. Who knows, I might end up liking it more than a CR. I will take the advice given here and go 1 size larger in the BR as that tends to be the way to go with this style and cut.

 

[Harris HTM]

I will definitely post pics when the jacket arrives but unfortunately for me Aero is slow to produce so we are looking at a minimum of 8 weeks :-(
.

Currently the waiting time is 11-12 weeks, I ordered my latest Aero in early November and received it 2 weeks ago, my girlfriends aero (ordered end of november) is yet to arrive. But it is worth the wait!

 

[Superfluous]

Craig, is that you ?? I ask because those photos you showed of these watches belongs to someone I know from LA.

Yup, its me, Craig.

If it is, this is Bruce aka "holdemchamp1225" from TZ. Small world seeing you here LOL. Having spoken to you since 2009 or 2010 I believe.

Hey Bruce, its been a long time.

I was just trying to make a point but I understand your side as well. I just think that Horween makes a great leather and product as they are the leather of choice for most high-end shoes, belts, sacs, etc....for men.

You are absolutely right. As I said, Horween makes wonderful leather. Moreover, Horween is one of only two tanneries that makes Shell Cordovan which is commonly used for high end shoes -- the other is Shinki. That said, the ideal leather for shoes, belts and/or bags is not necessarily ideal for jackets.

I have handled Vicenza before as I know someone with a Vicenza HB but again I just prefer a heavier weight jacket. Just my opinion really but if I wanted to wear a lighter weight jacket I would probably choose any of the 3 Eastman A2s I have.

I am not sure what leather Eastman uses for its A2s, but the leather Eastman uses for its ELMC jackets is lighter and thinner than Vicenza.

BTW, nice Trulli and NSA Incursion. I actually picked up an Incursion last year from another collector from Purist.

Thanks. My NSA Incursion is the BH Boutique Edition, 1 of 18. I was present when it was conceived at a dinner at the JLC Boutique attended by a few local collectors.

I haven't seen you around TZ or any other watch forum lately so now it makes sense since you stepped away from collecting.

Yea, I had a couple of life changing events (e.g., divorce) and, in the midst of it all, I stopped participating in the watch forums.

 

[Fanch]

Craig, thanks for a couple of highly structured, well thought out posts. Interesting how a number of us have more than one passion for collecting. Hopefully I am more or less done acquiring any more jackets or watches, although I still cruise through Tz and WUS, occasionally posting on Tz. I suppose the only difference between men and boys is the price of our toys.

 

[Edward]

At a TFL meet up some years ago, Andrew said to me, in reference to our hobbies and collecting pursuits, "All men are a bitg autistic". I think he's right.... In my musical fields of interest, the terms used are "girl collecting" (I like this band, I'd like to have a nice copy of all their music. I don't really care what format it's on, I just like to listen.) and "boy collecting" (These are the best ten records ever. This one is my favourite. I have ten versions of it - one on each label on which it was distributed, the LE purple vinyl version, and this version from 1978 with the misprint in the track listing. I listen to them only on this turntable, which I spent a grand on, and then two more grand making sure it was perfect......). I find thids to be true in most hobbyist areas.

If you are going through Denny at Aero, you might want to tell him exactly where your sizes 36 and 38 don't fit the way you wish. Pictures sent to Denny would also help him. Best of all would be a trip to Galashiels.

Especially when you're already as close as France..... It's a lovely part of Scotland to travel through anyhow, but the fasctory is something else. I spent two hours there speccing out my Dustbowl; I only wish I'd thought to try on one of everything I liked, just for future reference.

 

[Carlos840]

I was just reading the whole "Vincenza is too thin" thing.
These are the leathers in my closet, from thickest to thinnest:

Alexander Leathers Warhawk, Horween black CXL, Horween brown CXL, black Vincenza, Schott steerhide, Black Shinki, Lewis Leathers Cowhide, Eastman Leathers veg tanned.

The Eastman is the only one i would qualify as thin, and it is still much thicker and sturdier than anything you would be able to find on the high street.
It still makes modern fashion jackets feel paper thin.

Vincenza although thicker is softer, but it is definitely not thin and flimsy.

Another thing i couldn't help but notice is that you are looking for a jacket trim enough to fit with just a shirt, but with enough room to fit a "thick cashmere sweater"
These statements are pretty contradictory...Wouldn't it be better to get a trim fitting jacket for summer and a slightly bigger one for sweater time?

 

[Fanch]

This has been one of the more interesting threads, at least to me, comparing and contrasting the CR and BR designs. I would love to try on a BR in 44 long, although I doubt that will ever happen, and I need another jacket like I need three cheeks!

It is my impression that the CR has a fuller fit in the chest and shoulders but tighter fit below the armpits than the BR. My personal preference is the CR with a single pocket on the left breast and the zip sleeves in the back rather the front. I think I mentioned before I prefer no zips on the hand warmer pockets.

I was hoping @Sloan1874 would see this thread and post pictures and his take on his fantastic looking cordovan FQHH BR. Craig ...

 

[holdemchamp1225]

At a TFL meet up some years ago, Andrew said to me, in reference to our hobbies and collecting pursuits, "All men are a bitg autistic". I think he's right.... In my musical fields of interest, the terms used are "girl collecting" (I like this band, I'd like to have a nice copy of all their music. I don't really care what format it's on, I just like to listen.) and "boy collecting" (These are the best ten records ever. This one is my favourite. I have ten versions of it - one on each label on which it was distributed, the LE purple vinyl version, and this version from 1978 with the misprint in the track listing. I listen to them only on this turntable, which I spent a grand on, and then two more grand making sure it was perfect......). I find thids to be true in most hobbyist areas.



Especially when you're already as close as France..... It's a lovely part of Scotland to travel through anyhow, but the fasctory is something else. I spent two hours there speccing out my Dustbowl; I only wish I'd thought to try on one of everything I liked, just for future reference.

I agree with all that you stated and I think I will take the advice given by yourself and several others to take a visit to Aero's factory since it is not that far away (probably 1 1/2 hour flight). Just need to find the time to do so since I do travel alot as well.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

Yup, its me, Craig.



Hey Bruce, its been a long time.



You are absolutely right. As I said, Horween makes wonderful leather. Moreover, Horween is one of only two tanneries that makes Shell Cordovan which is commonly used for high end shoes -- the other is Shinki. That said, the ideal leather for shoes, belts and/or bags is not necessarily ideal for jackets.



I am not sure what leather Eastman uses for its A2s, but the leather Eastman uses for its ELMC jackets is lighter and thinner than Vicenza.



Thanks. My NSA Incursion is the BH Boutique Edition, 1 of 18. I was present when it was conceived at a dinner at the JLC Boutique attended by a few local collectors.



Yea, I had a couple of life changing events (e.g., divorce) and, in the midst of it all, I stopped participating in the watch forums.

hey Craig,

Long time buddy. Sorry to hear about your divorce. Life is crazy and since we last corresponded I have had some life changing events as well. Still collecting watches, cars, playing golf, squash, tennis, and martial arts, etc...guess I am trying to keep some things for myself LOL.

I do remember reading about the Incursion event at the BH JLC boutique and some of the people who attended. Unfortunately I was not stateside to be there but luckily for my I got the opportunity to pick one up. Actually had the Yellow Incursion first and traded it after picking up the Orange. Love it and it is one of my goto tactical watches. I prefer it on an articulated rubber bracelet from the standard NSA for comfort and versatility.

If you ever come to France when I am there maybe we can get together. I have a beautiful villa on the best golf course in the Cote d'Azur. If you play, we can have a round together.

It is here: www.royalmougins.fr

PM me if you want.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

I was just reading the whole "Vincenza is too thin" thing.
These are the leathers in my closet, from thickest to thinnest:

Alexander Leathers Warhawk, Horween black CXL, Horween brown CXL, black Vincenza, Schott steerhide, Black Shinki, Lewis Leathers Cowhide, Eastman Leathers veg tanned.

The Eastman is the only one i would qualify as thin, and it is still much thicker and sturdier than anything you would be able to find on the high street.
It still makes modern fashion jackets feel paper thin.

Vincenza although thicker is softer, but it is definitely not thin and flimsy.

Another thing i couldn't help but notice is that you are looking for a jacket trim enough to fit with just a shirt, but with enough room to fit a "thick cashmere sweater"
These statements are pretty contradictory...Wouldn't it be better to get a trim fitting jacket for summer and a slightly bigger one for sweater time?

This thread has definitely opened my eyes a little. Even though I have been collecting jackets for over 10 years now and have quite a few, I was probably not being very logical in my approach to choosing either a BR or CR.

You are correct in saying that it would be contradictory to have a slim fitting jacket which could also be worn with a thick layer underneath.

I think I will just have to expand my idea for a couple new jackets from 2 to 4 and going from a 36 CR to a 38 BR for a spring/summer jacket and a 38 CR for a fall/winter option as it would give more room to layer.

So my tentative idea is this:

* 38 BR Cordovan (either Vicenza Cordovan FQHH or CXL FQHH) with a light Royal Stewart Tartan as a summer jacket

* 38 BR Black (either Vicenza FQHH or CXL FQHH) with a light McCleod Tartan as a summer jacket

* 38 CR Cordovan (either CXL FQHH or 4oz CXL Steerhide) with a heavy Royal Stewart Tartan or Alpaca as a fall/winter jacket (going with a 38 would give room for layering)

* 38 CR Black (either CXL FQHH or 4oz CXLSteerhide) with a heavy McCleod Tartan or Alpaca as a fall/winter jacket (going with a 38 CR would give room for layering)

I think these 4 riding jackets would cover my range of needs perfectly as I DEFINITELY prefer the look and cut of the BR and CR over other styles such as a HWM, HB, BL, etc...

 

[holdemchamp1225]

This has been one of the more interesting threads, at least to me, comparing and contrasting the CR and BR designs. I would love to try on a BR in 44 long, although I doubt that will ever happen, and I need another jacket like I need three cheeks!

It is my impression that the CR has a fuller fit in the chest and shoulders but tighter fit below the armpits than the BR. My personal preference is the CR with a single pocket on the left breast and the zip sleeves in the back rather the front. I think I mentioned before I prefer no zips on the hand warmer pockets.

I was hoping @Sloan1874 would see this thread and post pictures and his take on his fantastic looking cordovan FQHH BR. Craig ...

I really hope he does see this as I would like to see what a BR looks like in Cordovan as now I am considering getting the BR as a spring/summer jacket

 

[Superfluous]

At the risk of complicating your decision Bruce: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/himel-brothers-leather-co.62833/page-24#post-2214756

 

[holdemchamp1225]

At the risk of complicating your decision Bruce: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/himel-brothers-leather-co.62833/page-24#post-2214756

hey Craig,

I had considered a Himel Bros jacket but I do not have any experience with them although I have read ONLY great reviews.

Saw his video on Youtube and really like his approach and Ethos. @AndrewC's Kensington looks AMAZING and I hope Aero's BR would look and drape similarly. I think the wait for a custom order is around the same timeframe so that is not a major concern. Will have a think about it.

 

[ProteinNerd]

You are correct in saying that it would be contradictory to have a slim fitting jacket which could also be worn with a thick layer underneath.

I think I will just have to expand my idea for a couple new jackets from 2 to 4 and going from a 36 CR to a 38 BR for a spring/summer jacket and a 38 CR for a fall/winter option as it would give more room to layer.

This is what I ended up doing. I have different fits/sizes for different seasons either size to worn with just a T-shirt or sized up to be layered under. Unfortunately one size does not fit all seasons....but then again it does give you an excuse for owning a few jackets

 

[navetsea]

if the jacket have a waist, it can appear trim without actually being tight, so a longer style like BR maybe is better.

 

[Monitor]

@Superfluous

But I agree, Super and that's why I have corrected myself in my second post on the matter. Vicenza definitely is not a lightweight hide but I just... feel that the weight of the hide is a major reason why I would ever consider paying so much money for a leather jacket. The design and the workmanship can be duplicated by a very talented tailor but the heavy hide, like the stuff my most recent CR is made from, that's something that can't be bought just about anywhere - hell, not even from Aero, at least not at all times as of all of their jackets that I have handled, this is the first one that actually is a suit of armour. I mean, with some luck you could still find some relatively hefty and very pretty leather jackets. Not at the malls but...

That's just me but I only feel comfortable wearing jackets that I would trust on a bike.

I've handled Vicenza but like just one jacket and a couple of samples. From my observation, Shinki RMC uses is a heavier hide in any case.