Head wear for formal wear.

[Topdog]

Slightly fftopic: but talking of bow ties for black tie, how big a faux pas would wearing a bow tie which is not black be? I have a black bow tie, but my friends are trying to encourage me to wear a more colourful one to the prom, despite my explaining that black is the correct colour. I do have a dark red self tying (obviously) bow tie with subtle white dots. Would it be a crime to wear such a bow tie with a black dinner jacket? (NB by cummerbund is a similar shade of dark red so it would sort of match.)

Go black, these prom pictures will be a time portal for you and when you look at them 50 years down the road do you want to see yourself dressed up in some type of gimicky costume or do you want to look like a smart dressed young man in a timeless style. Also get a used Homburg on ebay. I cringe when I see the latest crew of promsters dressed up in their tuxedos and their camoflage cumberbunds.

 

[Tiller]

This is a bit fftopic:, but do most of you think a homburg should only be worn as formal wear? I just got mine in the mail today, and wore it around, and most people I talked to thought it was just a new fedora lol.

 

[billyspew]

For black tie events I think for some it would be fine not to wear black - for instance my rugby club has their own bow tie (silver and blue) which is acceptable, as is a tie in the Dulwich College colours.
For a ball, sometimes it can infuse some fun and make you stand out, I have one that is half black half blue that I wear to my rugby summer ball. (The blue shows only on the knot- the tie remains black).

Bill

 

[avedwards]

Could I get away with wearing the grey hat shown in my avatar with black tie? In the '40s and '50s fedoras were acceptable with dinner jackets, so is it still a faux pas not to wear a homburg? The hat is sort of my trademark with my friends, as it is the only hat I have worn since January when I got it.

 

[Edward]

Does anyone know where I can get a fascinator with a veil which will stand up to a bit of wear and tear? Ideally that'llnship to the UK... I've had a few but they all seem to fall to bits after a while. Maybe I'm just too heavy handed!

As with anything else, a lot depends on what you want to spend.... they have a very nice range in (vintage lingerie specialist) What Katy Did; probably pricey, but by comparison to a lot of the cheaper stuff out there, they do seem to be good in the quality department. I've also seen some nice ones on sale at reasonable prices at various event on the burlesque circuit here in London. It seems that most places which specialise in producing tassles / paisties for the burlesque community also do fascinators, so it could be worth following some of those up as a lead.

btw... welcome to the Lounge!

I'll tell my friends to leave by black bow tie choice alone then. Is a coloured cummerbund allowed or does that have to be black too?

I'm a stickler for black as the correct colourof bow tie for black tie, myself. As to the cummerbund, this can be non-matching - a very 30s trend, as I understand it, was for burgundy. My preference is for a black waistcoat with a black jacket, but with an ivory or white dj (sb, of course) I would pair a burgundy cummerbund. I have two, one in silk, the other in velvet. With a light coloured jacket, the pocket square should of course be dark - I choose to sport a burgundy silk number, which tones in nicely with the cummerbund butg avoid the dreadful 'costumey' look that a matching tie would have.

That said, I think it's always worth remembering that the traditional "rules" are rules as guideline, not law - in this day and age, if you want to deviate a touch from them, that's purely a matter of personal preference.

This is a bit fftopic:, but do most of you think a homburg should only be worn as formal wear? I just got mine in the mail today, and wore it around, and most people I talked to thought it was just a new fedora lol.

Not at all. I tend only to wear my black one with semi-formal wear, but I have two others, one in light grey, the other a more charcoal shade, which I frequently wear with a lounge suit. I especially like this look for weddings or dinners which stop short of a black tie code. The fedora as we would understand it today didn't really arrive on this side of the Atlantic as a commonly worn style until well into the 30s; prior to that, a homberg was the default norm. See any photo of (Irish Free State Army General) Michael Collins in civilian wear or pre-1922, for example. If you want to 'soften' the look for everyday wear, you could always - as did the Big Fella - dent the crown to shape it a touch more like a fedora. This is a look of which I am particularly fond.

As to the original question, which related to the appropriate hats for formal and semi-formal wear, my views are as follows. While I acknowledge the historical place of the top hat (and, indeed, own several), I reserve these exclusively for formal wear, day or evening, with tails. It is my personal opinion that these hats look out of place with a shorter line jacket, and require the tails to bring 'balance' to the outfit. Others, of course, disagree - vive la difference! For semi-formal wear, my preference is a homberg; preferably black, although midnight blue would be fine if the dj and trousers are of that colour also. In a pinch, those who do not wear black tie sufficiently often to feel they want to invest in a hat they might not wear otherwise could possibly get away with a nice black fedora. That said, unless you specifically wanted a black fedora for day to day wear and finances were especially tight, there's really not much of a case for not buying a black homberg - they are very plentiful on the vintage market, and due to their relative lack of popularity as compared to vintage fedoras, they can be had quite cheaply. All three of my hombergs are very respectable brands, and came in at a half to a third (or less) of the sum I would have expected to pay for an equivalent fedora from the same manufacturer.

With respect to black tie in the Summer months when a felt hat is simply too warm, there are a couple of alternatives I would suggest. Personally, I love the look of a boater (I must try this look out - I still have a cheapy one I picked up somewhere a few years back for a Harold Lloyd costume), though be prepared to be frequently asked where the rest of your quartet are. Another alternative I plan to pick up is a Milan straw-type Homberg. Again, in a pinch, one can get away with a nice panama.

 

[Goose.]

This is a bit fftopic:, but do most of you think a homburg should only be worn as formal wear? I just got mine in the mail today, and wore it around, and most people I talked to thought it was just a new fedora lol.

Hi Tiller...I originally ordered mine for dress up day. Then I wore it once around town. Then again. And Again.
While if, and when, I ever get gussied up, I would wear it. But that doesn't mean I can't wear it otherwise.

Here are some associated posts. The "Homburg Nation" thread is a good place to see different looks and wardrobes gentlemen (and I) with a Homburg.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=775078&postcount=204

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=771848&postcount=121

So, I say "wear it". Most people on the street have no clue. And, if you run into someone that says it's a fashion faux pas, tell him, or her, that you'll get over it if they buy you a drink. It's just a hat...and be proud to be one of the gents that appreciates them.
So, put the lid on and post a pic in the Homburg Nation thread!!!
.

 

[metropd]

While top hats and Homburgs may have once been the norm for formal wear, both styles are outdated today, not only because they're pretentious but also because there are so few white tie events extant. For black tie, a black fedora makes the best sense. Whether you wear a single- or double-breasted Chesterfield, it's up to you. Velvet collar is optional; it was usually added later, as a replacement for a worn cloth collar. Watch any Warner Bros. gangster movie from the late 1930s and you'll see how smart-looking
a fedora and Chesterfield are with black tie. Add a white silk scarf with tassels, a white silk pocket square, and you're good to go. Leave the pistol or tommy at home.

A final thought. Whatever idiot dreamed up the idea of wearing a black business tie with a dinner suit should be strangled with the damn thing. A bow tie is the only proper tie to wear with formalwear. Whether made of silk satin or faille, it always matches the facing of the lapels. JMB

While I agree with the sentiment to be practical for today's time, I disagree that that the top hat hat or homburg is pretentious. An article of clothing is only pretentious if that is the attitude of the wearer. I have quite a few fedoras so When I dress formally I prefer to do it with how it was originally intended. However, generally speaking I agree with your advice.

 

[Charlie Huang]

A homburg can be worn for semi-formal day (i.e. black lounge/stroller in lieu of bowler) or to up the formality of an informal suit (cf. David Suchet's Poirot).

It is not confined to black tie.

And yes, a bowler is strictly for day wear with black lounge or a very conservative suit (cf. Steed).

If in doubt, don't wear a hat. Simple as that.

As to coloured cummerbunds, personally I would stick to black but since this is a prom where 'anything goes' I suppose you can. I would go for something not too plasticy or shiny. And I suppose that since this is not strictly 'semi-formal' in the traditional sense given the faux pas of 99.9% of the attendees, you could be forgiven for wearing a fedora in lieu of homburg. Or (if you want to be really really naughty and throw the rule book out the window) wear a smoking cap! lol

 

[avedwards]

My cummerbund is burgundy so not too bad a faux pas for normal black tie anyway I hope. Even if it's just a prom, I intend to wear proper black tie which is why I will take the advice I was given on the previous page and stick with a black bow tie regardless of whether my friends say it's too boring. The only thing breaking this rule will be my hat, but at least it's grey so it won't clash with black.

As for the homburg, in so many of the Basil Rathbone SH series Nigel Bruce wears them with just a suit so I think that that is probably allowed, as Watson even when dumb is a smart dresser who is unlikely to break rules.

 

[metropd]

My cummerbund is burgundy so not too bad a faux pas for normal black tie anyway I hope. Even if it's just a prom, I intend to wear proper black tie which is why I will take the advice I was given on the previous page and stick with a black bow tie regardless of whether my friends say it's too boring. The only thing breaking this rule will be my hat, but at least it's grey so it won't clash with black.

As for the homburg, in so many of the Basil Rathbone SH series Nigel Bruce wears them with just a suit so I think that that is probably allowed, as Watson even when dumb is a smart dresser who is unlikely to break rules.

In many movies(including pictures from real life) from the late 30's to early 50's men wore grey fedoras with normal Black Tie. So really you are not breaking any rules you would just be following the gradual decline in formal headgear with Black Tie. Remember light grey, medium grey, and dark grey fedoras were used commonly with black tie. There are old pictures in my Grandparents house where this is quite evident. Check out Mr. Rover in Black Tie he looked great a pearl gray fedora. I personally prefer the top hat as it was originally intended to be worn with. You should be fine with a grey fedora me friend. To bad it is not the Optimo................

 

[metropd]

A homburg can be worn for semi-formal day (i.e. black lounge/stroller in lieu of bowler) or to up the formality of an informal suit (cf. David Suchet's Poirot).

It is not confined to black tie.

And yes, a bowler is strictly for day wear with black lounge or a very conservative suit (cf. Steed).

If in doubt, don't wear a hat. Simple as that.

As to coloured cummerbunds, personally I would stick to black but since this is a prom where 'anything goes' I suppose you can. I would go for something not too plasticy or shiny. And I suppose that since this is not strictly 'semi-formal' in the traditional sense given the faux pas of 99.9% of the attendees, you could be forgiven for wearing a fedora in lieu of homburg. Or (if you want to be really really naughty and throw the rule book out the window) wear a smoking cap! lol

I Agree. The bowler has always been reserved for day wear, just like the pearl grey top hat in any era. Now, if you are coming home from an event or work and it happens to be in the evening wearing these hats is more than acceptable.

 

[avedwards]

In many movies(including pictures from real life) from the late 30's to early 50's men wore grey fedoras with normal Black Tie. So really you are not breaking any rules you would just be following the gradual decline in formal headgear with Black Tie. Remember light grey, medium grey, and dark grey fedoras were used commonly with black tie. There are old pictures in my Grandparents house where this is quite evident. Check out Mr. Rover in Black Tie he looked great a pearl gray fedora. I personally prefer the top hat as it was originally intended to be worn with. You should be fine with a grey fedora me friend. To bad it is not the Optimo................

Too bad indeed, I really liked the look of the Optimo and still regret not being able to get it. My Stetson may be good for a modern mass produced hat but it can hardly compare to what I missed out on. I'm still contemplating whether to upgrade to an Akubra, as I have found no vintage hats in my size and I check the classifieds daily and the local vintage clothing store reguarly.

But to get more on toppic, I will at least feel confident with my fedora without having to worry about comitting a faux pas. A topper or a homburg would be great, but I have neither and especially a topper might look a little bit overdone for a prom, not that I should care too much though as I wear a suit for informal gatherings with friends.

 

[Pduck]

This is a bit fftopic:, but do most of you think a homburg should only be worn as formal wear? I just got mine in the mail today, and wore it around, and most people I talked to thought it was just a new fedora lol.

When I think of a homburg, I think of a hat that bankers and diplomats wear for business occasions. Not necessarily for formal attire, but I would reserve it for those events where you want to put on the dog. The trouble with wearing a formal hat for everyday use (unless you're a banker or diplomat) is that when you do want to get all dressed up, you won't have anything special to put on.

 

[Fletch]

Apropos of nothing formal: I own a brown homburg. Talk about a hat with no possible role in today's society: too formal to be informal and too informal to be formal.

Flipping the front down is hopeless. It creates rounded corners, like a car bumper.
It is to the hat world what Aviation Working Greens are to the Navy. A reminder of a glorious past, but still somehow, deeply embarrassing.

 

[avedwards]

Flipping the front down is hopeless. It creates rounded corners, like a car bumper.

The rounded corners can be seen on some fedoras. Hard to see, but Mr Ness does it.

When I first saw that picture I thought you'd made a mistake posting a fedora instead of a homburg.

 

[immortaldiamond]

avedwards: Black is the ONLY colour, though some schools say a white marcella one is also appropriate (I would advise against unless you have the gravitas to pull it off and a white marcella waistcoat must be worn with it). Any other colour and it will look like, erm, prom wear! The only other colour should come from the pocket square or the buttonhole (a red carnation is appropriate).

Lensmaster: for white tie, only a top hat will do, or an opera hat which is a top hat but collapsible (both can be obtained for mere pennies). A homburg is too informal for white tie (and morning wear for that matter). Just watch Top Hat / Fred Astaire movies and it will show you more or less the look to aim for.

I was under the impression that white marcella bow-tie was only to be worn with tails.

 

[Charlie Huang]

I read from somewhere that you can (with matching waistcoat of course); black bow tie with tails however is a no-no. It sounds dubious so it is best to avoid IMHO. However, a black waistcoat with tails is acceptable (cf. the Duke of Windsor).

 

[Charlie Huang]

Ah, here we are! Evidence:

 

[immortaldiamond]

Ah, here we are! Evidence:

Fascinating! Also interesting to see the black waistcoat with the white tie (forerunner of the black cummerbund?) and the fancier variety on the right with tails. I'm afraid I gave up on tails a few years ago.

 

[Mr. Paladin]

My Stetson may be good for a modern mass produced hat but it can hardly compare to what I missed out on. I'm still contemplating whether to upgrade to an Akubra,

When it comes to felt feel and overall quality, I don't think Akubra is an upgrade. They seem more casual to me because of the coarser felt. They are, as noted by others before, probably more weather-tolerant, but yours seems to have gone through quite a lot in the wet, English weather, from your own reports. I consider Akubra an equal to Stetson in its niche, but Stetson is dressier. My thoughts only and I'm sure others will have their own.