Having a half belt made by Aero

[Mark-D]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here. I have however been reading posts on this forum for quite some time. I think there is no other place were so much expertise on leather jackets can be found.

I would like to have a leather jacket made in horsehide. I have been thinking about different models for a very long time and in the end prefer a half belt design. I do not ride a motorcycle. I just want a very nice leather jacket that ages well and that I will be able to wear for a very long time.

I have however several questions that have not been completely cleared after reading all the valuable information that has already been posted. I hope that your experience can help me to find some answers.

I'm 30 years old by the way. First, to give you an idea of my dimensions:

-Height: 5'9" (176cm)

-Chest circumference is 39" (100cm)

-Waist circumference is 36.6" (93cm)

So there is only a drop of about 2 1/2" between chest and waist (6,4cm).

-Shoulder width: how do I measure this so that Aero will know how to interpret this measurement.

-Sleeve length: I have the same question here. How should I measure so that Aero will know what measurement I give them.

Model and fit questions

I would like a half belt jacket that comes an inch or two below my belt line in front and touches the back pockets while wearing normal jeans.

I want the jacket to be trim and neat fitting without excess material all over the place. I would like just enough room for a T-shirt and a thin woolen/merino sweater.

What would be the best way to explain this to Aero? Because I have seen in a lot of posts that this has to be specified very clearly, or else a jacket will often be cut very generously.

I have seen people who desire this kind of slim-trim-neat fit ask to construct the jacket without a bi-swing back. As I do not ride a motorcycle I think this might be a good idea for my jacket too.

Another important thing is the width of the sleeves and the placement of the arm holes.
On the stock patterns the armholes appear to be very wide and also set quite low on the body. I do not have very large or thick upper arms and would like a neat/slim/trim fit here too.

Again, I would like to ask you what the best way is to explain this when placing my order.

I have read that people have asked Aero to make a jacket with ‘Japanese arm configuration’. Is this clear to them?
I have also seen the pictures of half belts that were made by Aero for Iron Heart. On this half belt pattern they have apparently used Café Racer arms. They appear to be more fitted and higher on the body. PICTURE

I would like the sleeves without the zips on the wrists but with regular buttoned or buckled cuffs. I do not think this will be a problem as I have small hands and slender wrists.
What would you suggest I ask Aero to make sure I have higher set and slim sleeves? Japanese configuration Half Belt sleeves, or Café Racers arms with non zipper cufs? Other things I have to mention to make it clear to them what I mean?

By the way, this is more or less the kind of overal fit That I am looking for in my halfbelt. What model should they begin with? A 50’s half belt? A 30’s half belt? A Cossack?

Removable collar
If I order a removable mouton collar with my halfbelt, will the attachment points be visible when the collar is not attached? I have read on this forum that Aero uses a two button attachment and that the collar does not remain in place very well. Do they still use this system? Did those who got an Aero with a removable collar find a solution for their problem?
Should a throat latch be added to the collar to improve the functionality of the collar?

Leather choice
And a final dilemma, which leather type to choose for my halfbelt. I am sure about the colour. I would like a brown one.
I have narrowed it down to two options. Either brown FQHH or Vintage brown FQHH.
I have read that the vintage FQHH is thinner and more wearable from the start. This is a plus. But I also read in a thread that after a year someone who had an Aero jacket in Vintage FQHH was starting to see a mismatching in the different pieces used in his jacket. Is this always the case? Is the vintage horsehide worked over to allow leftover pieces from hides to be used to make a jacket perhaps?
It is very difficult to decide which of these to to choose. Any suggestions?

That's it for now.

Thank you very much in advance for any help and advice.

Best regards,
Mark

 

[wdw]

As to size, my advice would be to ask Aero what the standard dimensions of the jackets and possible sizes you're interested in are, then take it from there. I don't believe Aero make literally made-to-measure, they simply adapt existing patterns to most closely match what you want. I believe different half belts have different cuts anyway, with one being a slimmer cut.

I can tell you that my 40" HWM and Teamster and 38" Stockman all have 19" shoulders, and they're all a relatively roomy fit around the chest. Once you find out the standard back length of the size you're interested in, you can compare that to an existing jacket and to the length you want.

My other advice would be that the more mods you request, the more the scope for something to go wrong or for the jacket to end up looking somehow not quite right.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I think that you have explained and discribed your questions very well...but in order to receive the most accurate advice..send the same questions..and photo to Amanda at Aero.
Here you may get many posts of differing opinions...that may or may not be absolutely correct avenues for success.
HD

 

[Sloan1874]

"I have seen people who desire this kind of slim-trim-neat fit ask to construct the jacket without a bi-swing back. As I do not ride a motorcycle I think this might be a good idea for my jacket too.

"Another important thing is the width of the sleeves and the placement of the arm holes.
On the stock patterns the armholes appear to be very wide and also set quite low on the body. I do not have very large or thick upper arms and would like a neat/slim/trim fit here too.

"Again, I would like to ask you what the best way is to explain this when placing my order.

"I have read that people have asked Aero to make a jacket with ‘Japanese arm configuration’. Is this clear to them?"


As far as the arms go - if you ask for the Japanese config, they'll know what you mean. Will at the workshop measured around my biceps and said 'yup, you definitely want that'. He said that this fit could be made with or without the bi-wing. I went for it mainly because I just liked the way it was put together - there's something elegantly deco-ish about Aero's bi-wing.

I'm also having a mouton collar added and, as far as I know, they still use the two-button attachment, but I can't tell you anything about it's efficacy. I've asked for a closure to be added, though Amanda told me that this will be attached to the mouton collar, rather than the jacket itself - this was exactly what I wanted, as I was trying to retain the basic integrity of the original jacket but adapt it in such a way as to get as much wear as possible over the year (at least until I can afford a B-3 or a B-6!).

Hope that helps a little, though Hoosier is absolutely right: if you speak to Amanda, she will keep you straight.

 

[Fanch]

It appears that you are going through the same process as many of have already. You are also asking the right questions. I think that HD probably gave the best response. What is your normal shirt size and suit jacket size? Based on the information that you provided, it sounds like you might be looking at a Half Belt Deluxe, maybe in a stock size 40, if I had to make a guess.

 

[oldcrow82]

I would copy and paste your original post and email Amanda at aero. A lot of these mods are requests made by members here and Amanda is quite Familiar with them.
Next, find either a jacket that you like the fit of and take measurements of it, as well as pictures of the paper tape measure of where you took the measurements from. Also take similar measurements as described previously of your arm span front rise ect. and include them in your email to Amanda. The more thorough you are with your measurements and requests the easier it is for aero.

 

[Peacoat]

As you don't ride a motorcycle, there is no real reason to get the bi swing back, as you have noted. That type of construction does give a bit more of an ability to reach forward without binding or the jacket riding up in the back. Some of my leather jackets have it, and some don't. I like the feature on my motorcycle jackets, but can ride without it.

If you get zippers, or especially buckles on the cuffs, they will hang on everything. Zippers are helpful on motorcycle jackets, but otherwise it is a good idea to stay away from them. Aero can probably give you a narrow cuff that doesn't require buttons to snug it up.

You have a clear idea of what you want; time now to send Amanda an email with the information you have given us. Good luck.

And welcome to the Lounge. PC.

 

[Mark-D]

Thank you all very much for the good advice.

I am emailing Amanda.

I have read in this thread about detachable collars in the archives: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/archive/index.php/t-60445.html?

Someone suggests that the detachable collar design of Schott is a lot better than that of Aero. Is anyone familiar with this alternative attachment system?

Best regards

 

[ButteMT61]

Thank you all very much for the good advice.I am emailing Amanda.I have read in this thread about detachable collars in the archives: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/archive/index.php/t-60445.html?Someone suggests that the detachable collar design of Schott is a lot better than that of Aero. Is anyone familiar with this alternative attachment system? Best regards

I have both. They're different, and I'd say Aero's is classier. Both work. Maybe someone prefers one over the other, but I won't say Schott's is better. It uses snaps instead of buttons (on the three I have) but if you wanted snaps, Aero might very well use the same ones they use in A-2 collars. Again, the look is different, but they both function just fine.

 

[Mark-D]

Okay, thanks. I asked because they are apparently looking at redesigning their detachable collars.

I have another, different question. If a jacket is made out of thicker, stiffer leather, like Horsehide, should it be cut larger or smaller than a jacket that is made out of much thinner leather?

Perhaps this is a strange question. But I can see different sides to this. The thin leather will allow you to move easier while wearing a smaller cut jacket. But a thinner jacket that is somewhat roomier will also drape more easily on the body, whereas one in thicker leather will have more 'obvious' excess material.

I ask this because I have a jacket in fairly thin leather that fits well but could be a little bit trimmer. I can measure this jacket and make the dimensions a litlle bit smaller but do not know what the effect will be on a jacket made out of much stronger leather.

I hope you understand what I am trying to ask

 

[Edward]

I get you.... I think it's personal preference, really. My Thirties Halfbelt is in FQHH, while my Highwayman is European Steer. To my eye, the heavier leather works really well in the tighter fitting jacket, while the boxier fit of the HWM drapes better, again to my eye (YMMV), with the more pliable hide. Aero's European Steer is heavier than, but still much closer to, the original Lewis jackets of similar design which I have handled than the FQHH would be, which is perhaps why I think it drapes better in that design. It's all opinion, though, so... FWIW, I have never had any problems with restriction of movement in the Thirties Halfbelt - certainly nothing that I would consider would be marked lt different with a lighter hide. FWIW, my Aero AN6552 (in goat, of course) is not far off as neat a fit as the Halfbelt, with no real difference in terms of movement.

Oh... and judging from the photo you have posted above of your preferred fit, I would definitely go with the Fifties model (I think that may well be exactly what the pictured jacket is, actually? Did you borrow it from another post on the FL?).

 

[Mark-D]

The jacket in the picture is a halfbelt made by Aero and sold by Ironheart. I think it is a 50's halfbelt with café racers arms.

 

[coloradorider]

I have another, different question. If a jacket is made out of thicker, stiffer leather, like Horsehide, should it be cut larger or smaller than a jacket that is made out of much thinner leather?

Perhaps this is a strange question. But I can see different sides to this. The thin leather will allow you to move easier while wearing a smaller cut jacket. But a thinner jacket that is somewhat roomier will also drape more easily on the body, whereas one in thicker leather will have more 'obvious' excess material.

My experience has been that the thicker the leather the less range you have to play around with fit. Where a soft leather will allow you a little more range because it drapes easier and may allow a slightly tighter fit in a jacket that would be too constrictive in a stiffer leather.

I ordered a new to me Aero 50's Half Belt that was advertised as being 1/2" over a pit-to-pit measurement I know that works for me. The jacket was actually 1" pit-to-pit too big by my measurement and the extra 2" of leather around the chest made the jacket extremely messy looking. You mentioned 'obvious' excess material and this was the problem. The leather is so stiff excess material is really noticeable.

 

[LaymanX]

Not the op, but here's my 50's HB (cordovan FQHH) from Aero.

*Edit: Fixed links

 

[handymike]

I agree that the horsehide isn't as forgiving if it's too large.
My 30's Aero halfbelt is a 42. I thought that because it was a slim-fit cut that I could be safe going up a size (I'm usually a 40)
turns out the length & shoulders are perfect but the chest is a bit baggy- I feel that if it weren't FQHH I could get away with it, but I think now my best bet is the Hot water/ dryer treatment.
I would use your actual
measurements and ask Amanda for her opinion. From everything I've read here, that's the way to go.

 

[regius]

The Perfect Leather Jacket (TPLJ) Now Found:

I believe many of us leather collector and connoisseurs here have heard of and experienced the drive of the concept TPLJ. Indeed, as we become better and better at noticing details and quality differences of the difference jackets, we increasingly feel the urge to keep on looking and hoping to find the perfect leather jacket. I have searched and handled more than 25 leather jackets in the past 7 years, the learning curve is steep, and gladly I have now found my perfect leather jackets, one in each of the three categories, of course, I am still looking for TPLJ in more categories, but finance and need-wise, I should be more than content.

Flight Jacket: the Goodwear G1 and A2. Mine is a Weber with anchored zipper, with superb crease and texture for the horsehide. I had also a goatskin no name and a Seal Dubow, the Dubow is great too, but I like the light colored Weber horsehide better.

Motorcycle Jacket: Vanson Californian Highway Patrol, with massive lapels and black hardwares, this is the closest I could find that resemble the Terminator 1 jacket. Perfect weight and perfect leather. Most of all, it has the perfect epaulette-less shoulder line that looks menacing but not cocky. For cafe racers, I am not particularly picky, the Schott horsehide 641 would do (sometimes you just want a shiny black horsehide with chrome hardware).

Vintage Civilian Jacket: the Goodwear California Ventura is the perfect one, even better than the Aero halfbelt. Aero halfbelt is built to resemble the original sleeve attachment, so it can restrict movement, but the Ventura is a action back halfbelt with adjustable cuff and high armpit. Also, you can't beat John Chapman's Veg tanned horsehide!!

Coat: Schott leather peacoat, the new style, not the black originals with huge arms.

 

[handymike]

"Also, you can't beat John Chapman's Veg tanned horsehide!!"

Hey Regius, what is it about John's hides that are so great? I've handled an Aero but not a Goodwear.
(This is the kind of info I was looking for in the Horween or Shinki thread....)

 

[Gancho]

I love trimfit heavy horsehide jackets and own a 1930th long halfbelt. My one is really trim, but still comfortable. But telephoning while wearing thick trim jackets is horrible. You have to change the hand every minute. So thick trim jackets are economical and py themself.

 

[Grayland]

I agree that the horsehide isn't as forgiving if it's too large.
My 30's Aero halfbelt is a 42. I thought that because it was a slim-fit cut that I could be safe going up a size (I'm usually a 40)
turns out the length & shoulders are perfect but the chest is a bit baggy- I feel that if it weren't FQHH I could get away with it, but I think now my best bet is the Hot water/ dryer treatment.
I would use your actual
measurements and ask Amanda for her opinion. From everything I've read here, that's the way to go.

I'm a size 40 and I was able to try on the 1930's Slim-Fit HB in both a size 38 and a size 40. The size 38 gave me very little wiggle room. The size 40 gives me plenty of room while not being baggy. I don't consider the Slim-Fit 1930's to be slim at all, I find it fits like I would expect a size 40 to fit. It is slim in relation to their regular sizing (a 38 Long Half Belt fits me perfectly).

 

[regius]

"Also, you can't beat John Chapman's Veg tanned horsehide!!"

Hey Regius, what is it about John's hides that are so great? I've handled an Aero but not a Goodwear.
(This is the kind of info I was looking for in the Horween or Shinki thread....)

Handymike, John Chapman imports his horsehides from Japan, which I believe in turn comes from Italy, I need to doublecheck with him, can't remember. The leather simply feels different, it's light weight, but thick and dense, a good balance between weight and ruggedness. The leather is easily moldable, the creases form easily. In other words, it doesn't drape, but this seems to be the desired effect for a "new" vintage jacket, as the grains and roadmaps on the surface quickly form. Other than that, the coloration is simply beautiful.