Have you ever gotten into a heated argument with a "tailor"?

[Fletch]

Forgive me if I seem to trade in stereotypes here,..but mostly today, you're stuck with people from Asia or third world nations who have a rough sense of fashion but no sense of style, and who were trained very strictly back home.

Especially in Asia, there is very little concept of personal style - clothes are something you wear to fit in, period! Doing anything else as a tailor would be at best unprofessional, and maybe even show disrespect for the master.

 

[Guttersnipe]

. . . Especially in Asia, there is very little concept of personal style - clothes are something you wear to fit in, period! Doing anything else as a tailor would be at best unprofessional, and maybe even show disrespect for the master . . .

I spent 3 years in business school, where 50% of my classmates were international students. As a consequence, I have many, many close friends and business acquaintances from China, Southeast Asia, Indonesia, India/Pakistan, and the Middle East. I can assure you, urbane, sophisticated urbanites from such parts of the world are usually quite well dressed.

Having had a dozen suits made, by a few different Hong Kong tailors, both of the made-to-measure and full bespoke variety, I can tell you that your assessments regarding the state of Asian tailoring are quite inaccurate . . .

 

[Lincsong]

Forgive me if I seem to trade in stereotypes here,..but mostly today, you're stuck with people from Asia or third world nations who have a rough sense of fashion but no sense of style, and who were trained very strictly back home.

Especially in Asia, there is very little concept of personal style - clothes are something you wear to fit in, period! Doing anything else as a tailor would be at best unprofessional, and maybe even show disrespect for the master.

Exactly

 

[Lincsong]

Forgive me if I seem to trade in stereotypes here,..but mostly today, you're stuck with people from Asia or third world nations who have a rough sense of fashion but no sense of style, and who were trained very strictly back home.

Especially in Asia, there is very little concept of personal style - clothes are something you wear to fit in, period! Doing anything else as a tailor would be at best unprofessional, and maybe even show disrespect for the master.

"disrepect for the master"....yeah, at this store there was a picture of each tailor with a card underneath each picture that read; 22 years experience and 20 years experience, I'm taking this to mean that they've been having the same problem with other customers and that was a way to show the customers that the tailors "know" what they're doing. But, if customers are constantly complaining about what the tailors are doing, perhaps the tailors need a good attitude adjustment. Afterall, they're not designing the suit, not creating a pattern and cutting the material, THEY'RE performing alterations!!!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

But most of these tailors are incompent. I've had a couple where I thought they had it done correctly, then when I came back the fools purposely hemmed them wrong and then didn't have enough material to bring it down. It seems to be an occupational mental illness.

I would of demanded a full refund & refused to take ownership of said garment.

 

[Fastuni]

Especially in Asia, there is very little concept of personal style - clothes are something you wear to fit in, period!

Replace "Asia" with "nowadays" and the sentence is closer to fact.

A widespread loss of a sense of style and degraded concept of "clothing" is just as much, if not more so, the case in the "Western" world.

I get what you were intending to say... but it is IMO confusing the hen and the egg:

That much of the garment making craft (whether tailored or mass produced) has disappeared from the (post-industrial) "West" and gone over to "Asia" or "other third world places" can be blamed on the consuming habits of the majority of "Westerners": solely interested in saving money and having no interest in quality or real individuality. The garment industry will cater to that majority.

That many (alteration) tailors in Western countries are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants (also the case in Germany) is not at least because of the (almost total) decline of interest among "Westerners" in going into this trade. That being said among the small number of remaining "Western" professional tailors you will also find disturbingly faddish, stubborn ones that are unwilling to fulfill "extravagant" demands of costumers.

Consumers and tailors with a "sense of style" (highly subjective anyway) and appreciation for traditional sartorial finery are a minority anywhere IMO - but they can be found in every part of the world. The number of quite sophisticated and style conscious FLoungers from Asian or "third world nations" (or respective background) attests to that.

 

[Edward]

That much of the garment making craft (whether tailored or mass produced) has disappeared from the (post-industrial) "West" and gone over to "Asia" or "other third world places" can be blamed on the consuming habits of the majority of "Westerners": solely interested in saving money and having no interest in quality or real individuality. The garment industry will cater to that majority.

Exactly. Most 'tailors' a tourist will encounter in Beijing, for instance, offer cheap, hastily assembled garments on a made to measure basis, selling not a quality garment but the novelty of having a "suit" made in twenty-four hours, with a notion of custom. However, there are high quality tailors there if you know where to look. Not dirt cheap, but certainly a fraction of the price of equivalent bespoke garments in the UK.

That many (alteration) tailors in Western countries are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants (also the case in Germany) is not at least because of the (almost total) decline of interest among "Westerners" in going into this trade. That being said among the small number of remaining "Western" professional tailors you will also find disturbingly faddish, stubborn ones that are unwilling to fulfill "extravagant" demands of costumers.

Hardly anything new... Edward VIII had a tailor in NYC make his trousers, while continuing to use his Saville Row tailor for the matching jackets, the reason being the latter point-blank refused to make trousers with something as vulgar as belt-loops.

Consumers and tailors with a "sense of style" (highly subjective anyway) and appreciation for traditional sartorial finery are a minority anywhere IMO - but they can be found in every part of the world. The number of quite sophisticated and style conscious FLoungers from Asian or "third world nations" (or respective background) attests to that.

Very true of my experience in both China and India. In fact, homeless and the very, very poor aside, the worst dressed people I have ever met have almost without exception been rich Westerners. [huh]

 

[Gin&Tonics]

I ran into something similar a while ago. The tailor and some woman who happened to be in the store proceeded to argue with me that it was the "new style" to have your jacket sleeves completely covering your shirt cuffs. I insisted that no, just because something is common doesn't make it stylish, and people who knew style like Carey Grant and Humphrey Bogart would have laughed at the idea of looking like a child playing dress up with his father's jackets.

I didn't go to that tailor anymore after that.

 

[Tailor Tom]

Gentleman,
I have been away from the Lounge for a bit and in coming back, read this post with interest. Now as a tailor, with 28 years in my craft, it actually made me sad to think that such poor work out there in the world in giving my profession a black eye.

First and foremost when searching for a tailor, ask friends and business people that you trust, respect and like their wardrobe/look as well. Ask them about their working relationship with their tailor (prices, turn-around time, etc) You can also ask any Bespoke tailor if they do alterations on outside garments. If a fitter (the person fitting the garment is not always the person who does the actual alterations) is going to argue about your demand, you are free to go elsewhere if you do not have a positive feeling for the situation. Always wear the appropriate footwear for trouser fitting, and proper shirt for suit fittings, as to get the sleeve length right. Let them know you would like to show more cuff and why (ie watch, cuff links etc).

And finally, you should build up a good relationship with your tailor, much like your barber, etc. Over time, he will learn your particulars of fit and style and the entire process will become easier.

I am fortunate to have clients that bring items to me for service, even when the store where it was purchased offers alterations for free. Many of whom prefer the working relationship over any "drones" doing assembly-line alterations that some stores perform. I hope that will be the case for all of you and your tailors.

 

[Gene]

The only question a tailor should ask is "How would you like that, sir?"

The tailor works for you, not the other way around. Perhaps a folder with production stills of Grant, Bogart, Flynn, etc. will help them understand what you want?

 

[reetpleat]

That makes a lot of sense. I can not speak to the accuracy or inaccuracy of the aforementioned statement. But I am definitely of the opinion that unless you are spending a lot of money at a very good shop, the people doing your tailoring who are from a foreign country, were not previously working for the well to do, stylish and affluent of their country back home. Those tailors are probably still making good money in their country of origin. What you get to day in the US, is often (just like hair and franchise restaurants) an immigrant who chose to lean a skill to make money and does not bring a true passion or understanding of style, as much as a yoeman's workmanlike approach to doing things as they learned to do them. I mean no disrespect by this. God Bless them. They are the stock that built this country. But when I want simple tailoring, or some jeans hemmed, I go to my local dry cleaner. If I want some expensive vintage tailored or even dry cleaned, I do not.

Of course, this does not mean I assume someone from another country or of various ethnic minority status can not or does not have passion, understanding, or ability to do something different or unique. But I gauge the establishment, the person, and their background and attitude based on the assumption that some people are in it for a living, and some are in it for a true calling.

 

[reetpleat]

But remember, most people rely on tailors to tell them what is right. And if the current trend is to wear the pants waist low and the cuffs long, then that is probably what most people want anyway.

 

[Metatron]

I ran into something similar a while ago. The tailor and some woman who happened to be in the store proceeded to argue with me that it was the "new style" to have your jacket sleeves completely covering your shirt cuffs.

This is surprising, showing the cuffs isn't just a vintage thing, I would have thought it's common knowledge. I went to have a jacket's sleeves shortened today, and as I saw the tailor was showing some cuff himself, I knew I was safe.

 

[Lincsong]

Gentleman,
I have been away from the Lounge for a bit and in coming back, read this post with interest. Now as a tailor, with 28 years in my craft, it actually made me sad to think that such poor work out there in the world in giving my profession a black eye.

First and foremost when searching for a tailor, ask friends and business people that you trust, respect and like their wardrobe/look as well. Ask them about their working relationship with their tailor (prices, turn-around time, etc) You can also ask any Bespoke tailor if they do alterations on outside garments. If a fitter (the person fitting the garment is not always the person who does the actual alterations) is going to argue about your demand, you are free to go elsewhere if you do not have a positive feeling for the situation. Always wear the appropriate footwear for trouser fitting, and proper shirt for suit fittings, as to get the sleeve length right. Let them know you would like to show more cuff and why (ie watch, cuff links etc).

And finally, you should build up a good relationship with your tailor, much like your barber, etc. Over time, he will learn your particulars of fit and style and the entire process will become easier.

I am fortunate to have clients that bring items to me for service, even when the store where it was purchased offers alterations for free. Many of whom prefer the working relationship over any "drones" doing assembly-line alterations that some stores perform. I hope that will be the case for all of you and your tailors.

Actually, about 14 years ago I started going to a tailor in town. He was just starting out and at the time he was very eager to get his business going and would do whatever you wanted him to do. Now, that he's been around he starts doing what he wants and I've stopped going to him. Sad, but it seems some people get too arrogant.

 

[Lincsong]

Alright, I just picked up the jacket. It shows just enough cuff and the waist is done correct. No, the rear vents don't stay open like the tailor said they would. I am very satisfied with the finished product. By, the way, I didn't realize how much shorter my left arm is from my right. I'm going to have to start carrying things with my left side to lengthen it. lol

 

[Asienizen]

Living in Asia is a mixed bag. I have found honest and competent people who will do what I want as long as I am very clear about the details and don't just assume they know what I want.

But I've had some people make absolute crap, that I could barely squeeze myself into. Once it's done though,I'm going to at least lose my deposit.

My worst experience was getting a linen jacket made with a very good tailor. The problem was she had her own opinions, but also said she'd do everything I asked. When I came back - she had made the waist too wide, overbuilt the chest like a suit of armor, over-padded the shoulders, and flatly refused to change anything without an extra charge. I said, "I told you from the beginning, many times, to not do these very things and you didn't listen to me." She then told me to go to another tailor, which I promptly did with much better results.

I still like getting things made here, and I think it's been worth it. Almost all of my clothes nowadays are tailor made, and I get plenty of compliments, or "where did you get that made?"

 

[Chasseur]

But remember, most people rely on tailors to tell them what is right. And if the current trend is to wear the pants waist low and the cuffs long, then that is probably what most people want anyway.

Exactly! One has to remember that the bread and butter of most alteration people is the general public coming in to get trousers hemmed and perhaps the waist adjusted as their mid-sections shrink and grow. We are the exceptions.

 

[Lincsong]

Exactly! One has to remember that the bread and butter of most alteration people is the general public coming in to get trousers hemmed and perhaps the waist adjusted as their mid-sections shrink and grow. We are the exceptions.

Unfortunately true. =(