Have the cowboy movies brainwashed me?

[JimWagner]

Take a look at these photos from the National Archives:

http://www.archives.gov/research/american-west/

The section called Life From the Land has some excellent photos of every day living.

Fascinating pictures. Thanks for the link.

Got me to thinking about why the movies seem so inaccurate as to western hats. Pure speculation on my part:

Hats did seem to change into more modern styles after about 1900. Western movies really got going in the 1930's. I'm guessing that most movie makers back then relied on living memories for how westerners dressed and many of those people would have remembered mostly post 1900. They wouldn't have traveled to the Smithsonian to research hats. No Google either.

They would have likely used hats that were available rather than having custom recreation hats, further biasing the western look in the movies towards post 1900 hats. And establishing the visual language of the cowboy.

Later, when bigger budgets were the norm, then more fanciful creations came about.

75 years later many people take what they see in the movies as fact. And certain real life hat styles have certainly derived their inspiration from movies, completing the circle.

But we can easily see period photographs online now and should be able to separate fact from fantasy.

But, unless you are trying to establish a living history or reenactment does it really matter except as a matter of interest and curiosity?

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

The simple fact of the matter is that movies are not historical documents of the stories they are presenting. Very few western films have the right boots, the right hats, the right holsters, even the right firearms. But these are stories meant to entertain. They should never be taken as historical documents of the past eras they are presenting in the story, really.

One of the few movies that tired to get the ephemera right was the TV miniseries Lonseome Dove. Not many others, sadly.

For instance:
-Cowboy boots were not pointy toed until the 1900s. Previous they were square toed until about the 1860s and then round toed afterward.
-Holsters were never worn down on the leg for a "fast draw." That was Hollywood nonsense. They were worn up on the waist.
-Cavalrymen never wore yellow bandannas. Bandannas were personal items, not issued by the government.
-We've already discussed how wrong hats in movies are
-Blue jeans were never worn by cowboys until the range was closed in later in the 1890s.
-All pistols were black powder cap and ball until about 1878. Cartridge loaded Colts started in 1873 and were much more expensive than the old cap and ball pistols.

There are other things, of course. But those are a few that nearly EVERY western movie gets wrong.

 

[scottyrocks]

Not exactly the Ponderosa, is it?

 

[gtdean48]

Another "western" that was decently accurate with dress & weapons was The Long Riders. It also used 4 sets of brothers to play 4 sets of brothers, James, Younger, Ford, Miller.

 

[Sam Craig]

There are several authoritative books available on the old west clothes and hats.
Don't trust the movies
Until the railroads, crossing any of the Great Plains was a long, terribly difficult, drawn out affair. 10 miles a day would be a lot.
Weather, hot, cold, wet, dry, obviously affected everyone.
To suggest there was a uniform outfit is symplistic, but you'd have to expect that most of the people who were out in the open were using hats, boots and clothing that was appropriate ... or else they were extremely uncomfortable.
There were plenty of wide brimmed styles, from the "planter" down south to the slouch hat that was popularized in the Civil War.
Many types of wide brimmed hats were available before "cowboy" hats were common.
"Cowboy," by the way, was originally an insult.
You wouldn't walk up to a Texas Drover and call him a cowboy in a cowtown saloon ... not and walk away.

Sam

 

[The Good]

In the first photograph, one of the hats, at least, seems to me like a Montana Peak sort of crease. I think this was one of the historically accurate, 19th century creases, correct? Also, was the telescope crease common, or was this a later Hollywood innovation as well? I won't even go into the cattleman's/alpine crease, except to say that it possibly came about in the 1890s, due to a photograph I have seen here on the Lounge dating to that era. In the second photo though, the older man to the right appears to be wearing a Boss of the Plains-esque hat, maybe a Sugarloaf?

"Cowboy," by the way, was originally an insult.
You wouldn't walk up to a Texas Drover and call him a cowboy in a cowtown saloon ... not and walk away.

If it was derogatory, then what were actual "cowboys" referred to as, most commonly, or more politely speaking? Were they just drovers, ranch-hands, cattlemen, or what?

 

[Rick Blaine]

...
If it was derogatory, then what were actual "cowboys" referred to as, most commonly, or more politely speaking? Were they just drovers, ranch-hands, cattlemen, or what?

In Georgia c. 1770- 1890 "Crackers".

 

[frussell]

I wish I could see the crown of the hat in my avatar, which is a photo taken roughly 1888-1890 of my great grandfather. In later years, he wore a kettle-curl brim hat with a Montana Peak-style crown. I find movies to be pretty funny when it comes to cowboy hats, and especially those made in the 50s and 60s, including TV shows. My grandfather was a stuntman and extra in a lot of early Hollywood westerns, and used to tell me about getting up in the morning and joining all the other hopefuls standing on the corner of a street near a studio, all of them dressed up in their full cowboy gear, chaps, guns and all, waiting to get cast in a picture, like the guys in front of Home Depot nowadays. At one point, he was one of the riders in the famous (back then) Oklahoma Land Race sequence in a movie called Cimmaron. He had lots of stories about how dangerous it was, because they still used trip wires and dug holes for wagons to realistically crash in. Unfortunately, he gave up all his old ten gallon early Hollywood hats and moved into fine cattleman-style hats later, so there's just photos to remember that era by. Frank

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

I wouldn't imagine that the crown on that hat of your great grandfather had much by the way of dents or creases. But, it sure would be cool to be sure.

Anyway, it appears that none of us here are fooled by Hollyweird. I am glad of that.

 

[Chinaski]

I wish I could see the crown of the hat in my avatar, which is a photo taken roughly 1888-1890 of my great grandfather. In later years, he wore a kettle-curl brim hat with a Montana Peak-style crown. I find movies to be pretty funny when it comes to cowboy hats, and especially those made in the 50s and 60s, including TV shows. My grandfather was a stuntman and extra in a lot of early Hollywood westerns, and used to tell me about getting up in the morning and joining all the other hopefuls standing on the corner of a street near a studio, all of them dressed up in their full cowboy gear, chaps, guns and all, waiting to get cast in a picture, like the guys in front of Home Depot nowadays. At one point, he was one of the riders in the famous (back then) Oklahoma Land Race sequence in a movie called Cimmaron. He had lots of stories about how dangerous it was, because they still used trip wires and dug holes for wagons to realistically crash in. Unfortunately, he gave up all his old ten gallon early Hollywood hats and moved into fine cattleman-style hats later, so there's just photos to remember that era by. Frank

Your great grandfather's hat reminds me of this guy:

I think Buffalo Bill influenced Americans (and probably later on, movie producers) in the early part of the 20th century with his Wild West Show. He was, of course, a showman, and not necessarily depicting an accurate portrait of the authentic west, even though he was part of the west and knew what was and wasn't authentic.

 

[frussell]

Seeing those angora woolies reminds me, we do still have great grandpa's old chaps (very similar to those pictured above), his Colt, spurs, and his circa 1880 saddle. No hats though. I wish I had his buffalo rifle, which was his profession at the time he took that photo. Later he was a cattleman, and a prosperous one by accounts of the day. Like many of that time, he came out West to live the romantic cowboy life, being originally from a very old Long Island family that goes back to the 1700s. Funny you posted Buffalo Bill's photo, because a long time ago, my grandfather showed me some old photos and playbills from a competitor's show that his dad toured with for a time. The name escapes me. His son, my grandpa, later toured in similar shows and vaudeville shows, putting on a bullwhip act, whipping cigarettes out of audience members' mouths. I thought he was full of beans until he demonstrated on my mother when I was a kid, and he was already in his late 60s. Frank

 

[Sam Craig]

There are some wonderful photo collections from Bill Cody's life, but you have to be careful in accepting his look as indicative of what was actually being worn in the West.
In 1876, when Cody scouted for the Fifth Cavalry after the Custer defeat, he had a black velveteen vaquero suit made that he wore part of the time on campaign, with the specific intent of being able to wear that same costume when he returned to the New York stage. He could honestly say that it was his scouting atire.
Cody had a unique look that was also emulated, to a lesser extent, by Hickock and Texas Jack Omohundro ... it doesn't mean that anyone else trying to keep body and soul together out West looked that way.
It was very popular for soldiers, cowboys, scouts, miners ... just about all young men who KNEW they were participating in a Western adventure ... to have their portraits taken in Western outfits. The Western photo studios had the hats and chaps and buckskin jackets and what-not on hand for them to wear.
They were living the adventure and creating the myth, all at the same time. It has always been part of the humor of the West, that we don't mind making our story larger than life.

Sam

 

[danofarlington]

I wish I could see the crown of the hat in my avatar, which is a photo taken roughly 1888-1890 of my great grandfather. In later years, he wore a kettle-curl brim hat with a Montana Peak-style crown. I find movies to be pretty funny when it comes to cowboy hats, and especially those made in the 50s and 60s, including TV shows. My grandfather was a stuntman and extra in a lot of early Hollywood westerns, and used to tell me about getting up in the morning and joining all the other hopefuls standing on the corner of a street near a studio, all of them dressed up in their full cowboy gear, chaps, guns and all, waiting to get cast in a picture, like the guys in front of Home Depot nowadays. At one point, he was one of the riders in the famous (back then) Oklahoma Land Race sequence in a movie called Cimmaron. He had lots of stories about how dangerous it was, because they still used trip wires and dug holes for wagons to realistically crash in. Unfortunately, he gave up all his old ten gallon early Hollywood hats and moved into fine cattleman-style hats later, so there's just photos to remember that era by. Frank

Wow!

 

[Edward]

I'm reminded of Back to the Future III, the early scenes in which 1950s Emmet Brown dresses Marty McFly up in what the former believes to be authentic Old West costume (of course, he looks far more like John Wayne with a Liberace makeover). It's not unlike the typical mental image many folks have of the 1920s gangster being largely a creation of early 1950s Hollywood, IMO.

Your great grandfather's hat reminds me of this guy:

I think Buffalo Bill influenced Americans (and probably later on, movie producers) in the early part of the 20th century with his Wild West Show. He was, of course, a showman, and not necessarily depicting an accurate portrait of the authentic west, even though he was part of the west and knew what was and wasn't authentic.

Jinkies, I thought it was Buffalo Bill when I saw it.

 

[Rick Blaine]

...
Jinkies, I thought it was Buffalo Bill when I saw it.

Tis. My wife's G'dad (b. 1889) saw him at an early Calgary Stampede

 

[Sam Craig]

Cody was the real deal ... showman and plainsman ... one of a kind.
It's a pity that in all the garbage on the tube they don't have time to do justice to his story
And he knew how to appreciate a great hat

Sam

 

[Icthruu74]

There are volumes dedicated to creating an authentic "old west" look. Check into the Single Action Shooting Society. I think a lot of times what was worn depended on what was available. You may have had to wear what the store had, there wasn't a lot of opportunity to shop around.

Many of the more modern western movies have made large efforts to be more authentic as far as apparel and gear go.

 

[Chinaski]

Seeing those angora woolies reminds me, we do still have great grandpa's old chaps (very similar to those pictured above), his Colt, spurs, and his circa 1880 saddle. No hats though. I wish I had his buffalo rifle, which was his profession at the time he took that photo. Later he was a cattleman, and a prosperous one by accounts of the day. Like many of that time, he came out West to live the romantic cowboy life, being originally from a very old Long Island family that goes back to the 1700s. Funny you posted Buffalo Bill's photo, because a long time ago, my grandfather showed me some old photos and playbills from a competitor's show that his dad toured with for a time. The name escapes me. His son, my grandpa, later toured in similar shows and vaudeville shows, putting on a bullwhip act, whipping cigarettes out of audience members' mouths. I thought he was full of beans until he demonstrated on my mother when I was a kid, and he was already in his late 60s. Frank

Cool stories, frussell! We're all going to have to make up some stuff to tell our grandkids if we want to keep up with these kind of tales!

 

[carouselvic]

Seeing those angora woolies reminds me, we do still have great grandpa's old chaps (very similar to those pictured above), his Colt, spurs, and his circa 1880 saddle. No hats though. I wish I had his buffalo rifle, which was his profession at the time he took that photo. Later he was a cattleman, and a prosperous one by accounts of the day. Like many of that time, he came out West to live the romantic cowboy life, being originally from a very old Long Island family that goes back to the 1700s. Funny you posted Buffalo Bill's photo, because a long time ago, my grandfather showed me some old photos and playbills from a competitor's show that his dad toured with for a time. The name escapes me. His son, my grandpa, later toured in similar shows and vaudeville shows, putting on a bullwhip act, whipping cigarettes out of audience members' mouths. I thought he was full of beans until he demonstrated on my mother when I was a kid, and he was already in his late 60s. Frank

Did he work for Pawnee Bill?

 

[RBH]

What time frame was he in the show?
It could have been The 101 Ranch.
Do you know a Blackie , Raymond or Elmer Russell, all three were in the 101 Ranch show at one time or another.