Hats in restaurants

[Hereward]

I was in the former Eastern Bloc of Germany a few years ago and went in a church. There I saw several men wearing hats and some of at least 60 years of age. My German friend answered my enquiry about this by saying that perhaps they didn't know (or remember) any better because Christianity was barely tolerated under communism and so they may hyave not been in a church for decades, if at all.

 

[The Lark]

He looks like he's trying to make a desperate excuse for keeping the hat on his head indoors, but she ain't buying it.

I was in a fairly cramped Chinese (or was it Vietnamese?) dumpling house tonight and couldn't find a spot on the table to rest my hat. Eventually I just turned it upside down and balanced it on my knees, taking care not to squish the crown in any way with my legs.

*note* - Am I the only one who's first thought was "Is that Michael Douglas?" before seeing the length of his hair.

 

[The Lark]

There are two places I believe an adult should never be seen wearing a hat under any circumstance: They are Church and the table.

Also the barber shop. If you keep the lid on, you are really just being difficult.

 

[JimWagner]

I was in the former Eastern Bloc of Germany a few years ago and went in a church. There I saw several men wearing hats and some of at least 60 years of age. My German friend answered my enquiry about this by saying that perhaps they didn't know (or remember) any better because Christianity was barely tolerated under communism and so they may have not been in a church for decades, if at all.

When I played in a German-style oom-pah band we dressed in traditional German tracht (costumes). I was told that there was a period of time after the last German king that German men pretty much never took their hats off, inside or out, as a sign of being free men. Before that they were forced to remove their hats in the presence of the nobility. Pretty much serfs removed their hats - free men didn't.

Perhaps some of the older Germen men still retained that tradition.

Different parts of the world , different customs.

 

[suitedcboy]

If you're brought up to think it's rude, it's rude. If you're brought up thinking it's no big deal, it's no big deal.

This is one of those things that is ENTIRELY social convention. It is not rooted in some great universal truth.

Relax and let people wear what they want to wear on their heads. Whether the reason is a lack of a hook or chair, or even if they simply want to wear a hat because it looks good. Hats aren't inherently evil, folks...

I agree wholeheartedly!

The only REAL reason to remove hat in a restaurant is if you are eating something that will get on your hat.

IF we want to create a revival in etiquette of years past then let's start by TURNING OFF CELL PHONES in a restaurant.
If we want to further the revival, let's decide it is criminally rude to drive inattentively, not use turn signals, and occupy the left lane when not passing.

I still stand by my assertion that it is far more offensive to see some man's hat flattened hairdo than to see his hat.
I also stand by the rule of etiquette being rooted in it being rude to stand in someone's home in coat and hat indicating their home is not worthy of staying to visit.
I promise you that if your home is not warm enough I will keep on my coat and not run out the door. I also promise I'll wear my hat and stay for hours.
If I remove my obsessively cared for hat (not that anyone here would understand that....) and fret over it I will be distracted from whatever the purpose of my visit and that too is rude.

I think I did think of something that is universally rude hat-wise: using one's hat to fan flatulence towards someone else!

 

[AXL DEMOCRACY]

Great post!

 

[StetsonHomburg]

I concur. [huh] He's not even a young punk, he should know better. He looks like he's got tons of hair too!

I do agree with you but not all teens are "punks", I am 13 and I find it infuriating when people sterotype all kids as being that. :rage:

 

[StetsonHomburg]

I still stand by my assertion that it is far more offensive to see some man's hat flattened hairdo than to see his hat.

Couldn't have said it better myself! I usually wear my hat for a long time and then when I go some where formal I am afriad to take off my hat lol

 

[Doggy Darb]

Also the barber shop. If you keep the lid on, you are really just being difficult.

Unless you want some kind of hat bowl job! lol

 

[Doggy Darb]

If you're brought up to think it's rude, it's rude. If you're brought up thinking it's no big deal, it's no big deal.

While I do agree that this is true, I disagree that it should then be acceptable to behave a certain way or do something that others find offensive because you do not agree that it is rude or offensive.

This sort of thing does not anger me, but I do not agree with his choice. I choose to remove my hat because I believe it is rude. When he does not, I believe he is being rude.

I believe it is rude to curse or use foul language, as well. If you are conversing with me in that tongue, I will find it rude. Does it make it less rude if you do not believe it to be rude? Assuming that you know other people find this to be rude, you should generally refrain from doing so. I would be no less offended by it regardless of what your belief on the matter. This is just as I feel about the wearing of a hat at the table.

I do not wish this discourse to be acrimonious. Please do not read my opinion as such.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

*note* - Am I the only one who's first thought was "Is that Michael Douglas?" before seeing the length of his hair.

Oh, I had the same thought, too. No doubt. lol

 

[jporgeck]

It is quite obvious there are many different opinions on this matter. At the risk of offending anyone's sensibilities I say get over yourself. Your dad or granddad's world is gone. There could be any myriad of reasons why he is wearing his hat at the table. Retaurants of this day and age are different from the days of yore. No hat racks, no hat checks, no respect for someones personal property etc. I'd sooner walk barefoot over broken glass than set my custom made VS fedora under my chair on the floor of any restaurant. On the table or chair where a server could spill something on it is highly questionable also. Alternatively, as someone mentioned, leave it in your car or at home. However, you may as well not wear a hat at all if you have to leave it.

So, if or until there is a reversal to the hat culture of yore, the safest place for your hat may be on your head. Wear it with pride.

 

[scottyrocks]

[/IMG]

'You see this watch? Ten dollars from a vendor on the street. But bury it in the sand for a thousand years and it becomes priceless!'

 

[Shangas]

'You see this watch? Ten dollars from a vendor on the street. But bury it in the sand for a thousand years and it becomes priceless!'

Shadows of Raiders of the Lost Ark?

 

[tonyb]

... At the risk of offending anyone's sensibilities I say get over yourself. ...

May you heed your own advice.

 

[Aureliano]

We love our hats. We want to take care of them. I disagree with jeporgek not in the fact that the times are different. They indeed are. But etiquette and politeness, for those of us who choose to observe them--they are in the end a matter of personal choice--, will never change and aren't things one can just get over.
I don't care if people in restaurants don't mind me wearing the hat during dinner or if they don't care about eitquette. I care. And I feel wrong wearing the hat inside. It affects me and the way I socialize. I like being polite even if people don't care about it.
When I go to restaurants I usually wear my rollable Borsalino, so 1 2 3, and inside my jacket pocket it goes. When I don't wear this particular hat and there's no place to put it, I simply request two extra cloth napkins and lay one under my chair, rest the hat on it and cover it with the second napkin. Nothing has ever happened to my hats.

 

[tonyb]

When I go to restaurants I usually wear my rollable Borsalino, so 1 2 3, and inside my jacket pocket it goes. When I don't wear this particular hat and there's no place to put it, I simply request two extra cloth napkins and lay one under my chair, rest the hat on it and cover it with the second napkin. Nothing has ever happened to my hats.

Now there's a system.

I'm typically not reluctant to put my hat on the floor under my chair, sans napkins or anything else that might keep it from making direct contact. (Depends on the looks of the floor, of course.) I guess my experience of restaurant floors differs from that of others here. Or maybe my standards of cleanliness are more, um, flexible? Or maybe I just have a more casual attitude about hats. It's certainly more casual than it was even couple-three years ago.

Sure, I want my hats to last forever, especially the ones that have already travelled 50 or 60 or 70 years down that road. And if I wasn't at least a bit vain, I wouldn't have so darn many hats anyway, so it's safe to say I'd rather my hats stay looking sharp. But man, every last one of them is just a hat. They usually clean up at least fairly easily, and at least fairly well.

My most-worn lid (a real looker, if I do say so myself) has a slight smudge or two on the edge binding now. I've bumped it against several car doorways and such and it's been through a few rain squalls. It's getting so it doesn't look new anymore. Oh well.

 

[Aureliano]

A hatter friend of mine said to me exactly what you just said, TonyB.
"dude, they're just hats!" he said.lol

 

[Barrelhouse]

Hat etiquette

UGH!!!

I always dread when this topic comes up because I am so torn. I am generally very conservative to the point of being somewhat of a prude on matters of public civility, but as others have pointed out, it is most difficult to be a hattie in a world no longer geared towards accommodating the hat wearer. I must admit that I have kept my lid on in situations where it was not de rigueur to do so. I have also been cowed to leave my hat at home simply because I knew I would find myself in a situation which would not afford any way to safely store my hat when I took it off as propriety dictated.

Its one thing to have a $19.00 Cuenca trashed by a clumsy waiter, unsupervised child, or greasy seat cushion, it is very much another to have a $1000.00 Montecristi ruined for the sake of a Victorian notion of correct social form. Go back to earlier eras and it was absolutely acceptable for a gentleman to keep his hat on in a public house where it could get stolen or soiled if it didn't stay put on his melon. What's the lesson to be learned here: that ideas of acceptable behavior change over time.

The real problem we continually encounter with this issue here at the lounge is that no one has bothered to seriously update hat etiquette since Emily Post wrote The Blue Book. And man, the world has changed a whole lot since then.

Perhaps we should take this on as a project, to create a cohesive set of rules for hat wearing for the 21 century. I thought the thread from several months back on this forum which explored the correct tack to take for removal of hats at an outdoor funeral service hashed the topic out very thoroughly . In the final analysis the rule of thumb recommended was not based solely on some antiquated social norm but by a consideration of what was dictated by the officiating religion's tradition, one's role in the service, and the need to show proper respect to the grieving family and the deceased's memory.

Rules of decorum should never be a burdensome yoke but rather guidelines to how one can handle themselves in a way that addresses one's needs without trampling those of others.

 

[jporgeck]

May you heed your own advice.

Touché Tonyb for similarly good advice for which I do indeed heed.

Presuming that my comment may have been misinterpreted, I will say that I am not against manners. In fact I believe that I have more manners than most. I actually had to teach my wife to wait for me to open her door. I say yes sir and no ma'am. Ladies go first, etc., etc. In fact, I cannot remember the last time that I saw a man open a woman's car door for her. It may that a man may however, the modern dame is already in the car before a guy could get the opportunity. However, cultural changes in etiquette and manners started decades ago. It would take decades more to bring about reversing those changes.

I wish I had the energy, the inclination and more time to debate the subject. Until such time I will heed my own advice and not worry about it.