Hat turn around?

[dhermann1]

Can a hat be turned around? I just got a really nice fedora from a fellow Lounger that I'm very fond of, but it has a tiny tear in the very front top area of the crown (clearly stated in the original ad, in case anyone's concerned). Just wondering, could the ribbon and sweatband be turned around to put the tear in the back, and make it look slightly better?

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

Hmmm. I guess there is no reason why it can't. Seems like it would be a lot of work, tho. Now, I remember someone saying that they used sandpaper on an area of a hat, saved the downy leavings and then glued those leavings into some moth holes. Is that an option? I hope someone with ore repair knowledge speaks up.

 

[Tango Yankee]

I believe that reversing a hat to move an area of weakening felt (which would lead to such a break or tear you describe) was a common renovation method, as was turning a hat inside out if the crown was faded.

That said, a renovator would have to work very carefully while doing so to keep from spreading the tear, especially if the hat is to be reblocked. Pulling the felt down over the block could cause the tear to spread.

Regards,
Tom

 

[scottyrocks]

I reversed a hat. Not much more difficult than putting a new sweat in straight away. The ribbon has to come off anyway.

The more difficult job is doing a 90 degree turn. I wouldnt do that without a reblock, and then Id need a darn good reason to attempt it in the first place.

 

[tonyb]

I believe that reversing a hat to move an area of weakening felt (which would lead to such a break or tear you describe) was a common renovation method, as was turning a hat inside out if the crown was faded.

That said, a renovator would have to work very carefully while doing so to keep from spreading the tear, especially if the hat is to be reblocked. Pulling the felt down over the block could cause the tear to spread.

Regards,
Tom

True, all of that.

Yes, flipping the hat around is not only feasible, it may well be advisable, seeing how a well-worn hat is often most worn at the front pinch. On a few occasions I've reinforced a thin spot with a patch on the inside of the crown and then blocked the body in such a way that what had been the front is moved to the back or side. With any luck, the patch doesn't "telegraph" through to the outer surface.

The Henry L. Ermatinger book (the "Scientific" guide, first published in 1919) advises grommeting a small wear hole at the front, and then putting another metal grommet 180 degrees opposite, and then blocking the hat body so that the grommets are at the sides of the crown. Voila, a "vented" hat.

That's quite a bit of work, of course, so a hatter willing to take on the job would be justified in asking a hundred bucks or more for his trouble. Most hats with that sort of wear just wouldn't be worth it, I'd think, unless the old hat was acquired for nothing (or next to it) or held some sentimental value. But then, a refurbished old hat, with a patch shoring up its weak spot, and with a new sweatband and ribbon, might be superior to anything you might get by way of a new (meaning recently manufactured) hat for a hundred bucks. But a vintage hat in better condition might be a wiser expenditure.

 

[BanjoMerlin]

Back when every town had a hat shop, and every hat shop hat all the equipment, doing the front-to-back swap was quite common. Men very commonly handled their hats by the pinch back then and when the hatter noticed the pinch getting thin he would turn the hat around during the annual cleaning. It really isn't a big job if you have the equipment and experience.

I have a few hats that had the swap done way back when and I've done it to several hats myself but I don't have those special sewing machines so it is a bit of a project for me to do.

It shouldn't cost you much more than a new sweatband and blocking would.

 

[tonyb]

Another complicating factor could be the brim edge treatment. A ribbon-bound brim edge would have to be either rebound (with a new ribbon, of course) or given some other sort of treatment (a raw edge, maybe, or a welt), seeing how you wouldn't want the seam anywhere but at the rear.

 

[Sam Craig]

Hatman Jacks in Wichita, Ks., has discussed this process with me to restore a great old Dobbs dress fedora. It does not have a break in the felt ... yet ... so I am being very careful and really not wearing it much.
It also needs a new sweatband, and the plan is to have it disassembled, the felt cleaned, ribbon removed, reblocked in reverse and then reassemled with new sweat ... hopefully saving the original ribbon and lining, but with the weak part in the rear where it gets less stress.
Still, as I said, the felt hasn't broken yet ... it's just weak.
Nevertheless, yes, it can be done.

Sam

 

[tonyb]

Hatman Jacks in Wichita, Ks., has discussed this process with me to restore a great old Dobbs dress fedora. It does not have a break in the felt ... yet ... so I am being very careful and really not wearing it much.
It also needs a new sweatband, and the plan is to have it disassembled, the felt cleaned, ribbon removed, reblocked in reverse and then reassemled with new sweat ... hopefully saving the original ribbon and lining, but with the weak part in the rear where it gets less stress.
Still, as I said, the felt hasn't broken yet ... it's just weak.
Nevertheless, yes, it can be done.

Sam

If the ribbon is still in good shape, it's probably better to reuse it. There is some decent modern ribbon, but most of the new stuff is really no match for vintage ribbon.

What kind of edge does this hat of yours have, Sam?

 

[Sam Craig]

It has the Dobbs guild edge, sort of like the old Cavanaugh edge, so that shouldn't present much of a challenge.

I don't have the guts to try to do it myself, though.

The hat is about a 2 1/2 inch brim ... probably 5 1/2 inch crown and it is a golden tan with a slightly darker ribbon. I should be well worth the cost of being professionally rebuilt.

Sam

 

[tonyb]

It has the Dobbs guild edge, sort of like the old Cavanaugh edge, so that shouldn't present much of a challenge.

I don't have the guts to try to do it myself, though.

The hat is about a 2 1/2 inch brim ... probably 5 1/2 inch crown and it is a golden tan with a slightly darker ribbon. I should be well worth the cost of being professionally rebuilt.

Sam

Yes, very much worth it. Please let us know how it comes out.

 

[BanjoMerlin]

Another complicating factor could be the brim edge treatment. A ribbon-bound brim edge would have to be either rebound (with a new ribbon, of course) or given some other sort of treatment (a raw edge, maybe, or a welt), seeing how you wouldn't want the seam anywhere but at the rear.

That's how I discovered a couple of mine had been turned. I noticed that the binding had been removed and re-sewn (extra holes), further investigation found the thin area at the back of the hat. I would have thought reusing the binding wouldn't be possible (or cost effective) but I guess sometimes they did it.

 

[danofarlington]

Can a hat be turned around? I just got a really nice fedora from a fellow Lounger that I'm very fond of, but it has a tiny tear in the very front top area of the crown (clearly stated in the original ad, in case anyone's concerned). Just wondering, could the ribbon and sweatband be turned around to put the tear in the back, and make it look slightly better?

Yes! The local hat expert here in Washington, Vince Corvelli, did that for a high-quality vintage Stetson Panama hat of mine a year or two ago. It's a pretty fine weave, but there was a little tear in the front of the crown, more than half an inch. So he just turned it around (hats being symmetrical), re-did the sweat band and ribbon, and voila! No more tear in front. It seems fine and by now I have forgotten that he did it.

 

[gtdean48]

Can a hat be turned around? I just got a really nice fedora from a fellow Lounger that I'm very fond of, but it has a tiny tear in the very front top area of the crown (clearly stated in the original ad, in case anyone's concerned). Just wondering, could the ribbon and sweatband be turned around to put the tear in the back, and make it look slightly better?

I have had hats sent off for refurbishing that have been turned around. Since the ribbon, liner & sweatband are all replaced after a thorough cleaning, the felt is checked. Those that were getting a little thin in the pinch have been turned around.

 

[Wolfen]

I had the turnaround done on an ebay hat, here are the results:

Back in December I posted this hat that I got from ebay. I took it to JW Hats here in Utah and had them fix it up for me. Here is how it looks now:

They had to replace the ribbon and couldnt get an exact match so it is now a little darker. I like the double bow thing that its got going on:

Sweatband was also replaced:

They resized it so it fits me:

 

[tonyb]

Yes! The local hat expert here in Washington, Vince Corvelli, did that for a high-quality vintage Stetson Panama hat of mine a year or two ago. It's a pretty fine weave, but there was a little tear in the front of the crown, more than half an inch. So he just turned it around (hats being symmetrical), re-did the sweat band and ribbon, and voila! No more tear in front. It seems fine and by now I have forgotten that he did it.

Repairing old straw hat tears is a trick I have yet to come even close to mastering, although I'm acquainted with a fellow who does a decent job of it. Seeing what he can do has me taking longer looks at old panamas I might have once thought were beyond hope. If a small tear can be made all but invisible, and the repaired area can be moved to the back of the crown, well, I don't see why you wouldn't do it.

 

[danofarlington]

Repairing old straw hat tears is a trick I have yet to come even close to mastering, although I'm acquainted with a fellow who does a decent job of it. Seeing what he can do has me taking longer looks at old panamas I might have once thought were beyond hope. If a small tear can be made all but invisible, and the repaired area can be moved to the back of the crown, well, I don't see why you wouldn't do it.

Actually he didn't repair it, just moved it to the back so no one would notice, and no one does. On repairing Panamas, you're right, it's probably hard. Actually I asked Brent Black that question once by e-mail and he came back saying, "how would that be done?" So I assumed that it was impossible. Then later on this forum, someone made mention of cloth tape or something that you might apply to the inside of the crown. Someone else mentioned "glue," although I woulld think you have to be a craftsman to try that. So now it might be possible. Anyway, the problem of actually repairing a Panama remains, though I wish it were solveable.

 

[Sam Craig]

Wolfen ... that looks great.
I hope my Dobbs comes through that good,
Congrats,

Sam

 

[tonyb]

Actually he didn't repair it, just moved it to the back so no one would notice, and no one does. On repairing Panamas, you're right, it's probably hard. Actually I asked Brent Black that question once by e-mail and he came back saying, "how would that be done?" So I assumed that it was impossible. Then later on this forum, someone made mention of cloth tape or something that you might apply to the inside of the crown. Someone else mentioned "glue," although I woulld think you have to be a craftsman to try that. So now it might be possible. Anyway, the problem of actually repairing a Panama remains, though I wish it were solveable.

Panamas are a whole 'nother animal, so I won't pretend to any expertise here. But I understand from people who do know of what they speak that breaks in the straw can be rewoven (Bob, care to join in here?), although actually getting that done can turn into a long and drawn out international adventure. And I know of repairs made with some type of cloth tape to the insides of the crowns. That latter method might be something purists would look down their noses at, but if it results in turning what had been a candidate for the trash bin into a perfectly wearable hat -- a hat whose tear isn't growing any worse, thanks to that effort -- that's all to the better in my book.

 

[jamespowers]

Actually he didn't repair it, just moved it to the back so no one would notice, and no one does. On repairing Panamas, you're right, it's probably hard. Actually I asked Brent Black that question once by e-mail and he came back saying, "how would that be done?" So I assumed that it was impossible. Then later on this forum, someone made mention of cloth tape or something that you might apply to the inside of the crown. Someone else mentioned "glue," although I woulld think you have to be a craftsman to try that. So now it might be possible. Anyway, the problem of actually repairing a Panama remains, though I wish it were solveable.

Glue works fine fromt he reverse side. Elmer's Wood Glue does a fine job. I have done it with several straw hats but not a fine weave panama. Those would be best to have reweaved by someone like PanamaBob. I have glued a milan and a lesser grade cuenca that my son sat one once. It works fine as long as the area stays still for long enough to dry. Tape the front with something like blue tape that doesn't stick tight and glue it from the back---job done.